View Full Version : Purchasing TB Broodmare advice need
09-12-05, 05:04 AM
Dear Cyberhorse forum users,
I was wondering whether anyone had experience in purchasing mares specifically for breeding.
I have bred a few foals but my main breeding mare is getting on a bit and i am looking to expand my horse breeding. I am very very fussy as far as conformation goes and i see alot of mares out there with foals that i would never breed from. My pet hate is ewe necks! my old faithful broodmare has the most beautiful topline and her neck comes out of the shoulder properly and her foals are all like this. Alot of breeders say the foal is only as good as the mare so with this in mind I am looking for a quality mare with a bit of height- pref 16.1hh+
I have decided that a thoroughbred with good performance lines such as Thatching/ Archway, king of babylon, Sir tristram/ Sir ivor, Century, Vain, Better boy, Star Kingdom, Ribot, Bowl of flowers, Raise a native, Family ties, Also like the Last Tycoon horses I have seen- nice types... but how and where do you find them?
I would also like a mare that has done ok on the track- doesnt have to be a group winner! just something that you could breed a racehorse that would get a good price at the yearling sales if you wanted- just trying to keep my options open :)
Anyway has anyone bought a TB mare before specifically for breeding purpose and if so what sort of advice can you give eg. good breeding lines or crosses, ways of accessing the market, experience at buying mares for TB sales or studs.
Any idea what one would expect to pay for a TB broodie???
Your help would be much appreciated.
Hi Hooleydooley I have sent you a PM, so check your box.
Depends a bit where you are but if in Vic which I suspect from your stallion range, there are the Inglis Mixed sale [dead cheap at the last one - early Dec] & a few in the weekly Winning Post. I'm personally strongly into 'perfect matches' especially from the point of view of duplicating top female lines so if you'd like any advice, give me a hoy!! Good luck. I love your prospective stallion lines too.
Lisa an Gypsie
09-12-05, 09:42 AM
I would definateley look for something along the Sir Tristram/Zebeel lines (my fave type :)) also some nice bold and reasonably fast mares by Lion Hunter he's a nice type and has thrown some very nice horses. I also like Family Ties, Jacobs Creek (dead but nice progeny), SemiTwist(dead but nice progeny) (father of one of the jumping reserves in Athens olympics), Raise A Stanza (I think), Danehill (Most of danehill's descendants are athletic and can do a bit of everything from race to ponyclub), Flying Spur (produces nice horses but some seem to have behavioral problems like windsucking and box walking), Lunchtime and Star Kingdom.
Lisa an Gypsie
09-12-05, 09:43 AM
or just go straight to the top and buy the Diva and then get millions for her foals :)
09-12-05, 02:54 PM
It's helpful if your are a member of the online ASB. You can look up her breeding etc. including her own breeding history (number of live foals) and also if the mares registrations have been kept upto date. If not you could be up for extra money specially if she has dropped of the stud book.
We bought a TB mare specifically for breeding, off the track. Her photo in Horse Deals caught my eye, and enquired.. looked at the pedigree (very nice) looked at more photos, got the vet check, brought her home! Here she is:
ps we paid $2800 plus transport.
10-12-05, 05:42 AM
Lisa- I am not sure that my budget could stretch to by the Diva!
Have thought about zabeel/ sir tristram but i have heard(from a reputable source)that the Sir tristram horses can be bad tempered but I am not sure which horses where in question or what sort of up bringing these 'bad' horses had- too many variables to reject the stallion line just because of one persons opionion as there have been some fabulous performance horses from these sires.
Sil- your mare is quite nice good uphill conformation- just out of curiosity what is her breeding? What are you going to breed from her TB? WB? Anglo?
I have had a look on the stallions.com.au site and looked at the conformation of some of the boys and I couldnt believe how much it varies! Some are nice types, others are long in back, sway back (at 5 years I might point out!), weak necks, or just not particularly attractive- poor things! Mind you they all seem to have run fast enough at one stage to justify them being entire.
Gdh- what sort of female lines do you go for? Flower bowl, Natalma? I read an interesting article on the size of horse hearts and how they think there is a link between some of the great racehorse's heart and specific dam lines- one of which i think was 'Pocohontas'.
At this stage i am very much in the research phase- i want to make sure I get a decent mare that can throw nice horses and have reputable bloodlines.
Anyone been to inglis mixed/broodmare sales before?
Hey HD, here is my mare's pedigree:
Like you I took a great interest in bloodlines for performance and we were looking for a nice mare to breed strong competitive eventers. I bought this mare on the base that she is a Secretariat granddaughter plus has Blue Peter on the damside, along with 20+ lines to Blue Peter's Sire Fairway and his sire Phalaris and dam Scapa Flow, and BP's dam Fancy Free.
Bloodlines I like are Nasrullah, Princequillo, Sir Gaylord, Hyperion, Mumtaz Mahal, Selene, The Tetrarch, Bulldog/Teddy/Ajax, Dark/Bay Ronald, Nearco, Son-In-Law and Perfume. All jumping and performance lines ;)
10-12-05, 09:18 AM
Thanks for the info seri,
I notice she has a 4x4 to Better Boy as well as alot of other nice horses appearing in her pedigree. She should produce some pretty special eventers.
Maybe I will have to give horse deals a look. Might go to an inglis sale for a look too- although there isnt a thoroughbred one untill Feb/ March next year (Give me a bit of time to research and save up some extra $$). There is the big Australian Broodmare Sale in Newmarket around easter I think, but auctions are so hard to buy at when you dont have unlimited funds! Plus If I get something that is not in foal in February it is too late to breed from for the current season, perhaps get a TB infoal to a TB then breed a WB next time- oh this is turning into a major feasibility study! decisions decisions
Easiest thing is to just look for Thoroughbred mares/fillies that you like the look of, then get the registered name and look up on the ASB Stud book website. Maybe go down to the racetrack and look over some of the trialling hopefuls - that would be a good place to start. The mare was bought fresh off the track. I think that's the most likely place to find plenty of horses.
Or maybe contact the local trainers? Or just look out for TBs for sale on the many online for sale places including CH.
Looking around some breeding studs of TBs I would give my eye teeth for certain mares for performance but unfortunately what makes them good for performance can make them good for breeding racehorses too.
10-12-05, 03:18 PM
I also recently purchased a tb mare to breed with. I purchased her through word of mouth at a local agistment centre where my sister kept her horse.
I really liked her blood lines, confirmation and temperment and best of all she only cost me $1,000. The girl had bought another horse and wanted to get rid of her. (personality clash with the mare)
I have done a few shows (hack) on her and she is terrific, I wanted to make sure she was not a lunatic before breeding from her.
I am breeding a foal for myself to eventually ride and show.
She will be going to Carbine next year (if his stud fee doesn't go up again). When he was only $1600.00 I didn't have a mare, isn't that always the way.
I have tried to post a photo but was not successful. Not sure how to post a link to the ASB site (read technologically inept) so I have cut and pasted most of the pedgree line. It doesn't give her complete pedigree and very sorry it's so long.
I have read quite a few articles which mention that Sir Tristram prodgeny, although very talented can also be very tempermental.
Good luck in finding your ideal mare.
Sire Line Dam of Sire
Kouros (AUS) 1998 from Playcay (AUS) 1989
Distinctly North (USA) 1988 from Distinctiveness (USA) 1972
Minshaanshu Amad (USA) 1979 from Tappahannock (USA) 1971
Northern Dancer (CAN) 1961 from Natalma (USA) 1957
Nearctic (CAN) 1954 from Lady Angela (GB) 1944
Nearco (ITY) 1935 from Nogara (ITY) 1928
Pharos (GB) 1920 from Scapa Flow (GB) 1914
Phalaris (GB) 1913 from Bromus (GB) 1905
Polymelus (GB) 1902 from Maid Marian (GB) 1886
Cyllene (GB) 1895 from Arcadia (GB) 1887
Bona Vista (GB) 1889 from Vista (GB) 1879
Bend Or (GB) 1877 from Rouge Rose (GB) 1865
Doncaster (GB) 1870 from Marigold (GB) 1860
Stockwell (GB) 1849 from Pocahontas (GB) 1837
The Baron (IRE) 1842 from Echidna (IRE) 1838
Birdcatcher (IRE) 1833 from Guiccioli (IRE) 1823
Female Line Sire of Broodmare
Kouros (AUS) 1998 by Distinctly North (USA) 1988
Playcay (AUS) 1989 by Maizcay (AUS) 1984
Play The Double (USA) 1981 by Nodouble (USA) 1965
Shot In The Shade (USA) 1977 by Canonero II (USA) 1968
Shadow (GB) 1960 by Alycidon (GB) 1945
Sunshade (GB) 1953 by Court Martial (GB) 1942
Sun Helmet (GB) 1940 by Hyperion (GB) 1930
Point Duty (GB) 1926 by Grand Parade (GB) 1916
Pinprick (GB) 1917 by Torpoint (GB) 1900
Third Trick (GB) 1906 by William The Third (GB) 1898
Conjure (GB) 1895 by Juggler (GB) 1885
Connie (GB) 1884 by Pero Gomez (GB) 1866
Hilarity (GB) 1871 by King Tom (GB) 1851
Nightingale (GB) 1857 by Mountain Deer (GB) 1848
Clarinda (IRE) 1846 by Sir Hercules (GB) 1826
Mustard (IRE) 1836 by Phillip I (GB) 1828
Vinegar (GB) 1832 by Picton (GB) 1819
10-12-05, 03:33 PM
After posting her bloodlines, I realised that the dam line Pocohontas who Hooley Dooley has refered to is in her pedigree.
She also has a lot of stallions from Sil's list in her pedigree, Nasullah, Mumtaz Mahal, Hyperion and Nearco.
Now maybe thinking that she could produce another Makybe Diva lol
Thing to keep in mind is that a lot of TBs have these bloodlines and are absolute duds - there is an old saying 'horse makes the pedigree, not the pedigree makes the horse' so always look at what you have got first. Pedigree just tells you where she comes from and what kind she might produce, but will not overcome fiddle fronts or wasp waists etc.
Look at the sire of my mare Kingston Rule, Melbourne Cup winner, son of super stallion Secretariat out of an Australian Horse of the Year - complete dud as a sire. Progeny can't run for love or money.
So take it with a grain of salt, but don't discount it entirely. I have learnt that the main lineage to take an interest in is where it is on the sire and the dam's side.
11-12-05, 04:10 PM
Yes, you are correct with your saying on pedigrees. And yes my mare was a complete dud on the racetrack. It was a tongue in cheek comment.
I have specific breeding plans and I searched long and hard to find the right mare for what I wanted. So yes her pedigree did have some nice stallions, but it was her conformation and temperment and the fact that she will suit the stallion that I wanted to breed from (whom I mentioned in my first post), where the reasons I purchased her.
So no, alas, I think Makybe Diva is safe, for now anyway. lol
Sorry Cleo, I did realise you were pulling the leg ;) She sounds nice
12-12-05, 04:12 PM
I really like your mare, I think you got a bargin with her from HD.
What are your breeding plans Performance, Racing Other?
I have two Star Kingdom mares here, both have Star Kingdom on their dam line, one is by Palace Music, who is by Northern Dancer, and the other is by Rustic Amber.
Both of these mares have fabulous temperaments, very correct conformation and good to very good movement.
The Palace Music mare I picked up at the Inglis Broodmare sale 3 1/2 years ago, for $660. She'd been sacked as a 2yo, put in foal as a 3yo, then put back through the sales after her foal was weaned. She has about 8 crosses to Hyperion, with all of the noted performance stallions listed above. She is my very treasured girl, and is about to drop a foal by Alabaster, (the original, not JB Alabaster). Last season we bred a stunning colt by a little known WB stallion called Fahrenheit, he is now 13 months and is just gorgeous, looking to mature to about 16.3h. She is a really pretty mare, dainty head, gorgeous eye, and lovely topline. Only 15.3 but I can expect all her foals to go over 16hh as her sire Palace Music is 16.3h.
I have a 3yo WB filly by Jazz (frozen) out of a Star Kingdom mare, and she also has a divine temperament. My other WB/tb mare DOESN'T have Star Kingdom, and she is a typical moody, snarly mare! but I love her anyway, lol!
All three of my mares who have Star Kingdom are very similar in temperament, they are very much people oriented, love to be with you, love a cuddle and a scratch, and want to be in your back pocket.
The Inglis Broodie sale is definately worth a look, get a catalogue beforehand and study up on your bloodlines, then go and have a look on the day before, when they sell the foals. You will be surprised how cheap some of them go for. Sure, there are the ones who go for megabucks - one I circled on the basis of pedigree went for over a $100,000!!!! I nearly ran home with my tail between my legs at that point, lol! ;-) but there are lots of bargains to be had. I was so sad that I didn't have multiple lots of $300 to buy all the ones who went to the doggers :-(
We are putting her in foal this year to Sirocco who has Rudilore foundation mareline.
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