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View Full Version : Christine Wels caught on camera "training" a Horse



_Freckles_
07-10-08, 07:18 PM
http://www.rtl.de/rtlaktuell/rtl_aktuell_videoplayer.php?article=22414&pos=5

Already busted once, then upped shop and went to Denmark

Celtic
07-10-08, 07:32 PM
:(

teetee
07-10-08, 07:41 PM
Words fail me ;(

Blazzing Ripper
07-10-08, 07:52 PM
That vicious B***H!!! If she came anywhere near me I'd stick a cattle prod right up her A**!!!!!

I'd love to know what is being said if anyone can translate.

BR

gg_vice
07-10-08, 08:04 PM
One day horsey wont miss with those double-barrels.

JCA
07-10-08, 08:08 PM
What you see on this video is mild compared to what she can do and has been charged and convicted of previously.
;(

Disgusting person.

I could happily remove her hands.

bgw
07-10-08, 08:11 PM
Never heard of her, but from that video she should never be allowed near a horse. TRAINER???????

_Freckles_
07-10-08, 08:15 PM
Amazing that people will stick up for the decisions in training this asshole makes. She's lucky some two legged out there doesnt flip out and double barrel her....
[center]
http://www.longmountain.com/movieguns/TheUntouchables/DSCN9952.jpg

PS: Translation of news story in progress, will append to thread shortly.

_Freckles_
07-10-08, 08:26 PM
Newsreader: This is the training of a dressage horse: Again and again the former top rider, whose name we can't disclose due to legal reasons, hits the animal for 30 minutes non stop. A hidden camera films the totaly terrified horse even being beaten with the butt of the whip. We show the footage to the editor in chief of a reputable equestrian magazine (Oldenburger Sportpferd Magazine). He is shocked.

Jan Toenjes: You don't understand "What is she doing there?" and the horse certainly doesn't understand it either! A senseless beating...I'm just lost for words!"

Newsreader: The former well known dressage rider hits her horse almost 500 times alone in this 30 minute training session,but when she is confronted with her actions she denies them

Reporter: "Why do you do this?"
Wels: "I don't do "this" at all!"
Reporter: "Why are you denying this?"
Wels: "I don't torture horses-why don't you go and have a look at the horses?"

But pictures speak a different language:

An animal protection worker leads the horses out of the boxes and they show evident signs of mistreatment. The pasterns are bleeding and their mouths show the scars of deep wounds-obviously the results of the brutal trainings methods. This is not the first time this athlete (trainer) has been accused of mistreatment of animals and is probably the reason she has now moved to Denmark. Animal protection organisations intend to forward this footage to the authorities so we never have to witness these images of tortured horses again.

Sarj
07-10-08, 08:30 PM
I feel so sorry for those horses... how do they have any spirit left? she NEVER gives the poor thing an opportunity to know if he's done the right thing... I'm guessing the title is along the lines if 500 lashings in 30 mins? BIATCH!!

teetee
07-10-08, 08:37 PM
I see no reason why this woman should ever be allowed near another animal again.

CateH
07-10-08, 09:04 PM
From my limited German, the title means 500 blows in 30 minutes.

Makes me weep to watch her with a horse I'd give my right leg to own, and all she can do is flog it :( poor horse, I just wish it's aim was better, because she deserves a hoof to the head IMHO x(




http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/Cateh/horsebar1.gif

Horse sense - something that horses have that stops them betting on humans

JCA
07-10-08, 09:16 PM
Cate - that's all I can think too. What a BEAUTIFUL horse.

It's so sad. There will be nothing left of his mind or personality or "being" after that kind of treatment, he will opt out and just become an empty shell.

Puc
07-10-08, 09:31 PM
Geez I wish I hadn't watched that..

i_love_royal
07-10-08, 09:34 PM
Good grief, why are humans like that even allowed to exist?


http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t316/i_love_royal/Scratchy-2.jpg

Undomesticated Equines could not remove me.

frogfriday
07-10-08, 09:43 PM
From memory (and this is only memory), she is not allowed to own, train or handle horses any more in Germany - which I guess is why she has slipped across the border into Denmark.

St. Georg magazine in DE has run several stories and photo reports on this woman (the reporter in the video is from St. Georg). They seem to be very active on cruelty issues, and have no problem taking on 'big' issues. I seem to recall that after her conviction, she was caught training again in germany.

What I don't understand are the people that take their horses to her, and defend her methods - despite her conviction.

Makes me very, very sad. Most horses are so willing and loyal given half a chance; they will try their hearts out for a handler that asks them the 'right' way.

tgh05
07-10-08, 09:49 PM
This is not uncommon.. they are just horses.. dumb animals.. whats the problem??

I have a tape (maybe had .. it is a long time ago) of the then coach of the german young riders dressage squad .. constantly spurring a horse who would not "hold" the piaffe.

Torturing nags is where you find it, sadly one doesn't have to look far.

_Freckles_
07-10-08, 09:50 PM
Perhaps a stipulation could be made by FEI that any horse who is "trained" by this person is inelligible to enter competition sanctioned by them *watches peoples eyebrows raise*. I realise this would be still hard to enforce, but it would make some people think twice ? [br]

Betcha people will still ask her to "train" their horse because she can get, ahem, "results" - .....

Tracey A_T
08-10-08, 02:25 AM
This woman needs beating with a big stick!!!

Shahron
08-10-08, 03:44 AM
I gotta tell you all.... this woman is bad but I see it here all the time - not necessarily the whacking but abuse of the bit and spurs - ALL the time. My pet hate is the material classes where they have to stand a horse up in front of the judges. Every horse is stood and then the rider jab-jab-jabs them in the mouth the whole time (supposedly to keep them standing still). The judges watch it, the crowd watches it and they all think it´s perfectly normal. It makes me want to scream!!!
I have many videos of well known riders showing horses for sale or in training in private stables that would make your toes curl. It sucks - but it is normal here. Almost every horse is trained in draw reins - every horse you get on has no sensitivity left in it´s mouth.
Australians are very lucky.... we are extremely well educated generally in the ways horses learn and also in our general horse husbandry and horse care. Do you know here, I´ve met people who think that a swollen tendon sheath is the end of a career? Only the vet can administer a wormer and if you try to get a decent xray....! I had to get a vet/friend in Australia to tell them the angle, light exposure etc. just to get a decent xray we could read.
Today I had my horse´s teeth done - she´s 8yo and it´s the first time for her. I´ve seen horses 15yo dropping food everywhere with ulcers all through their mouths and you say ´what about getting the horse´s teeth done?´ What??? What have teeth got to do with anything?
The quality and number of horses here is amazing but they are treated, for the most part, like cattle. It can be very depressing...

frogfriday
08-10-08, 05:57 AM
An older video:

http://www3.ndr.de/ndrtv_pages_video/0,,SPM14440_VID4235588_TYPflashhigh_LOCint,00.html

The commentary basically says that the defendant claimed the witnesses were lying 'massively', the judges felt the case was proved and she was fined 6300 EUR and forbidden to own, handle or be around horses for two years. They are (were) looking at other cases (relating to this woman). Observers were pleased as they were afraid that she would not be punished.


And Sharon is right. A lot of the practices here are horrible - and noticable even to those just lightly scratching the surface of the horse world here.

:(

md
08-10-08, 08:23 AM
disgusting, but sadly humans often take their inabilities out on animals.

Doesn't really matter what discipline, from dressage so showjumping to showing, western, the good ones don't need to do it, the try hards....

I hate watching halter arabian classes for that reason, some of the handlers are very good and obviously have a 'good' respect and understanding of their handlers, others........

Yep beat the horse to a pulp, that will makes thing all better, she should be banned for life.

carbon
08-10-08, 08:44 AM
People like that should be removed from the gene pool. For her I say bring back burning at the stake!

That poor valiant horse... someone needs to upgrade him!

Me_Georgie
08-10-08, 08:59 AM
looks like they showed it on the telly.. good on them.. name them and shame them..

nushiek8
08-10-08, 09:00 AM
I dont even understand what she is even trying to achieve by doing that. Short-short draw reins, cantering in a tiny circle whiping, the poor thing the entire time. I just dont understand.

And as much as i would like to have the horse get one of those kicks to connect, i would hate to think what the horse would get as a punishment for it.

rikki
08-10-08, 11:47 AM
makes you sick to your stomach watching that, but unfortunately she is only one of thousands who do similar things all in the name of training. She just happened to get caught on film. How many more will be doing the exact same thing or worse as we read this page.
I made the mistake many yrs ago of sending a young horse back to the breeder for handling as I was out of action at the time and was persuaded to take him there as 'leaving him to be in the paddock' was wasting valuable time. He was a yearling colt, never put a foot wrong had impeccable manners but was a big lad and had a bright future which they wanted to promote for there stud.

I caved in and off he went , the transport guys loaded him no problems, I couldn't get up there to see him, but I called every few days to see how he was the answer was 'fine hes progressing well', the day came to pull him mane, I was well enough to go and do this so offered, but my offer was refused. I then get a call from someone on the stud suggesting I best come see him as he had injured his leg.
Had the vet been called I asked' OH yes' so up I go. The stud owners were not home , I walked into the stables to find a trembling skeleton scared to death of anything that moved his eyes said it all. I called the transport people same guy turned up and couldn't believe that the once very proud strong colt he loaded 6 weeks previously had turned into a quivering skeleton of a horse. His rugs had whip marks ( more poly pipe marks) all over them so at least they didn't';t want to cut him, but he still had welts on his chest and neck.He had run through a gate in fear of being caught and chipped a bone in his knee.That was 12 yrs ago, it took 12 months to get him to accept being caught without having to run him into a yard. He still jumps if you raise your hand to touch him, and to this day you still cannot pull his mane or even comb it.
And to top it off, the stud owner had indeed 'spoken to the vet', he didn't come out, she just ordered a whole lot of BTZ'S and charged them to my account, along with other items for her personal use.
This is here in Australia, our own back yard. Only good thing now is they have retired, she now runs agistment I am lead to believe.
Never again will a horse leave my property for anything unless I am there full time.x(

sorry long post but it makes me so mad,some people treat animals like they have no feelings at all:(

Horses4keeps
08-10-08, 12:02 PM
Having worked in professional eventing and showjumping yards (and seen and heard of mhow many others operate), I can count one hand the number of trainers I would be happy to send my horse away to for schooling. Big names are no guarentee of the type of care & training a horse receives.

LisaL
08-10-08, 01:39 PM
well the second video was VERY disturbing - to see a horse bleeding from the mouth was very upsetting.

Y'know, I use the terms 'beat the bejezus outta him', but at the same time, my horses never have welt marks after a ride, are not afraid of the whip and aren't afraid of the bit. And I'd be locking myself up if they ever had wounds from gear like those poor horses had. But then, my aim is always to aim to produce something that I'd feel was safe for any rider, and a safe horse is a relaxed and happy horse that hasn't been trained in conflict.

I'm still wondering where on earth shahron and frog are that they see this sorta training every day. But then, I've seen horses trained so that they have tails going like washing machines and spend more time in the air and bucking and kicking than actually working.

Sweet_Savannah
08-10-08, 03:54 PM
I think we really need to ask ourselves what direction horsemanship is heading in when people think it's 'acceptable' for a horse to bleed from the mouth, have it's head forced to it's chest, and whip and spur it constantly to the point of breaking the skin... all in the name of SUCCESS.

I would assume that there are hundreds more like her out there that pass under the radar, some not as bad and some worse. But what about the stablehands, the grooms, the strappers, the other riders... hell THE OWNERS? Why don't these people speak up and make a complaint?

The only time I have seen a horse bleed from the sides was when the lady riding him wore a pair of rubber 'bubble' spurs and the rubber chafed him so badly that he lost all his hair and ended up rubbed raw and bleeding. The lady was absolutely horrified at what had happened because she had used the softer rubber spurs. She was frantically running around with ointment patching him up and making an absolute fuss over him. The next time she rode him in normal metal POW spurs and he was fine.

foxni483
08-10-08, 04:10 PM
savannah

It's not horsemanship

It's stupid people with no idea of how animals think

It's not hard for us to realise that horses respond better to positive training, rather than making them to scared to do anything wrong.
BUT there are alot of stupid or poorly educated people out there.


grrrrr they make me angry

and I will say it if I see someone do something mean (not anywhere near as bad as some of the stuff mentioned here) as it is never the horses fault. Makes me some enemies :P, but if one person stops to think about what they are doing, and that it is bad then its fine.

chipsy1
08-10-08, 05:07 PM
Shahron, to be honest I could say the same thing you say about your experience in Germany about my experience here in Australia. There are bad people everywhere. Abuse of whips, bits, spurs happen here and there especially when big money is involved..And THAT's the problem, the money you have to make when you are in the horse business. That's why I stick to the classical people who are not in it for fame or money. Yes, it takes a bit longer to train a horse like that, but they would never do these things that are shown on the video.
chipsy

doorh_000
08-10-08, 06:12 PM
:(

_Freckles_
08-10-08, 06:25 PM
It would seem the only way to protest is to drop out of competition so the powers that be actually get their arses into gear and enforce/add to the rules they have made. The old saying "you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas" seems to apply... it's why i havent made inroads to comp. dressage etc etc - i dont want to even accidentally associate with people of this "calibre"...

The only calibre they deserve is a .303 slug to the temple ...

*grumble* ....


edit: I was just perusing a certain other forum and someone has written "Isn't there rules at comps now which riders can be banned for treating their mounts cruelly" - wasnt there always rules about this but just poorly enforced ? Am i reading this correctly ??? some comps have no real rules in reguards to welfare ? Who would compete in something where critter is not always put first ??

jazzyjazz
08-10-08, 06:55 PM
Agree, Just Sickening :-(

pauper
08-10-08, 07:10 PM
Even after you take away the hideous beating x( , i still cant see what this woman is trying to achieve!
how does she think the horse can do anything when its head is nearly touching its knees :(

Freckles i cant speak for other clubs, but at TD's old club a person was banned from ever competing there again as they displayed some "anger management issues" against their horse.

Not sure if it can be upheld for ever though, as committee members change over time people may not remember that this person is not allowed on the grounds.


Earth is the insane asylum for the universe.

md
08-10-08, 07:21 PM
Here we go blame those that compete, the fact is there is just as much cruelty, ignorance and bad horsemanship done by those that do not compete as those that do, horsepeople no matter what discipline they are into, if they genuinely care about horses DO NOT ever go down that path.

I have seen cruelty in the name of "natural" horsepeople again and again and again, just as I have witnessed it in the warmup at a dressage comp, showjumping arena, western pleasure (don't get me started on western pleasure) etc.....

Sometimes its about money, but mostly its about ignorance, frustration and ego and those that think they know more than they do.

Honestly when I owned a saddlery the scariest people to come in and ask for severe contraptions were the trail riders and the self called you bewt breakers.

I have also seen it under the guise of "classical" here in QLD, its not the competition that causes the cruelty, these individuals would be cruel anyway, if they are not taking it out on horses, they would be taking it out on something else.

Tracey A_T
08-10-08, 07:48 PM
Unfortunately, I think it a world wide issue.

I once saw a woman whipping her horses legs because it wouldn't stand still - i explained if you hit it legs it will move them more, stupid woman.

However I did see a lady get eliminated for excessive use of the whip in a showjumping competition she was about 18, when she came out of the arena her mother dragged her off the horse and sold it to somone else there and then (it was a good horse, people were always offering to buy it). With the comment "If you can't ride this horse I'll sell it to someone that can", this raised a gleeful chuckle from the crowd who were watching in horror.

If only more people would speak out perhaps we could change things for the better.

CateH
08-10-08, 07:53 PM
Cruelty can come from ignorance, or it can also come from just not giving a ####. I think the lady in the original video fits the second category.... I hope there's a special hell reserved for people like her.

Moving on.... yes it's everywhere, I've seen a well known ASH competitor / breeder reefing up her horse with a twisted wire bit prior to switching bits and going in the ring to win Champion. Did anyone pull her up BIG FAT F***ING NO!

Any time ANY one of us loses it with a horse we should walk away, have a cup of tea, or a beer or whatever works. Then come back when we're in control. That's one category, where people don't have the emotional maturity to deal. Then there's people who like to think because they're "professionals" that they're allowed to take short cuts that seem alarmingly often to include flogging, over-spurring and other completely cruel things.

It is the ultimate sign of the inadequate skills and knowledge of the trainer. And also, IMHO their lack of psychological evolution.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/Cateh/horsebar1.gif

Horse sense - something that horses have that stops them betting on humans

chipsy1
08-10-08, 10:17 PM
I don't think it's just people who compete that are cruel. You see it everywhere. But of course if there is pressure (e.g. money) some people might be more likely to use force. The important thing is that the people who witness such things speak up no matter where it happens. Yes, I know that saying something can be really difficult.

HedgeWitch
08-10-08, 10:32 PM
>The important thing is that the people who witness such things
>speak up no matter where it happens.

Chipsy1 you hit the nail on the head with what you have said as most humans will say in their heads "oh, someone else will report them so no need to get involved" and turn away, it is one of those nasty human traits. It takes guts and nerve to stand up to these people (I admire anyone that does), you usually end up being the baddie in other peoples eyes but that is normally because they have only heard one side of the story and did not witness the event themselves.

BTT

This happens everywhere sad to say, a lot of animals suffer due to greed, human ego, pure brutality, superiority or plain ignorance. Personally I think laws (in various countries) are too slack for animal abusers.

Hedgy

Aargo
03-12-08, 11:24 AM
Ahhh this is the old chestnut to which I was referring too...

defender
03-12-08, 12:33 PM
You'll be pleased to know that this particular chestnut got 1 year 9 months on a 4 year parole,a 3 year ban on keeping any animal and 150 hours community service.

cobboboonee
03-12-08, 12:49 PM
Well that has to be a good outcome at last.

Aargo
03-12-08, 12:55 PM
Thanks for the update Defender

A

sheenanhodge
03-12-08, 01:17 PM
Just off the subject slightly.

Is there any authority in Australia that can "Confiscate" (spelling??) animals without having to get the owner to surrender them??

Aargo
03-12-08, 01:40 PM
Not sure, maybe try the RSPCA after contacting the owner and let the RSPCA that the animal appears to be abandoned...?

The other suggestion is to go and see your local chamber magistrate as this will cost you nothing and they generally point you in the right direction...

A

MM62
03-12-08, 02:12 PM
Aren't you the same person who said re the horses abused in Geelong, that these sick bastards should be studied and posted an incredibly rude carton? Now you want to shoot 'em? I wonder who needs to be studied.

_Freckles_
03-12-08, 03:28 PM
Yes ok, touche. I had a bit of an outburst + wanted to make a bit of drama. What we say and what we do isnt always the same thing. As for the cartoon, no apologies there unfortunately.