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PIAS
12-08-10, 07:25 PM
Jake has sand colic again - second time in 3 weeks. Vet has just been. Has paraffin drenched him and given him a sedative and pain killer.
Vet has suggested the honey/milk remedy and upping his psyllium intake.
Can someone please give me the recipe?

Harriette
12-08-10, 08:11 PM
1/2kg honey
1L milk
but its not for horses WITH colic, its a purgative
best wishes
http://forum.cyberhorse.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=77191

PIAS
12-08-10, 09:33 PM
Thanks Harriette

Vet wasn't 100% sure of the ratio.
He was talking about giving it in a week or so after he's had another paraffin drench on Monday.

We are hoping this is more of a 'seasonal' colic (vet tends to agree) as there is very little grass in the paddocks at the moment and sandy ground doesn't help.
All the horses are getting hay at lunchtime as well for a while to tide them over until the grass comes through. There have been quite a few sand colic cases around the area lately so its not just on our property.

shadowmystique
12-08-10, 11:22 PM
That ratio is too much, use 500g raw untreated honey (cannot have been heat treated) thin in a pot over low heat. Add 500ml full cream milk and 200ml cream stir till combined then Drench horse. Thus can be used during a colic episode safely so long as it is NOT a compaction...


Parrafin will NOT flush sand and I'm happy to hear a vet suggest this remedy!

I have used it with excellent result during colic... Stopped it in it's tracks and 5 hours later the horse shit almost pure sand... I use this remedy regularly as a preventative on all my horses as well.

They will eat it mixed with a little chaff

bgw
13-08-10, 12:19 AM
just wondering how you administer it, do you tube it or have another option.

thanks Biddi

DB
13-08-10, 11:35 AM
Follow Shadow's recipe - it's the closest to what I use, and they're all so different. The cream is needed. You can buy those drenching syringes with the long spout on the end. They hold about 200mls.

You can tube it if you have a tame vet, you can mix it with chaff if they'll eat, or stand there for blasted hours with a 200ml syringe and drench it down through ther mouth, down your arm, in under you shirt sleeves........ That's when they have their head being held, and let some trickle out so it goes down through your sleeves, into your bra, and settles nicely down near the waist band of whatever you have on.

It's brilliant. I've never had an x-ray in the paddock, but have only ever had one compaction in my life (in the horses. I have one every time I take Panadeine Forte) In Australia, paddocked, guess sand, usually. They are significantly different with a compaction.

PIAS
13-08-10, 12:54 PM
Thanks SM. I'm hoping he might just drink it as he's such a hoover :D But mixing it with his feed is a good alternative.
How often would you dose with this?

Was also suggested to me to feed bran as it is also supposedly very helpful in flushing sand..... Any ideas on this?

treacle
13-08-10, 12:55 PM
"500g raw untreated honey (cannot have been heat treated) thin in a pot over low heat. Add 500ml full cream milk and 200ml cream stir till combined then"

muddle with kahluah and a dash of vodka over ice and serve with a sprig of mint !!! :p

PIAS
13-08-10, 01:33 PM
Mmmmm yum. But then what do I give Jake? :D

jersey_cow
13-08-10, 03:17 PM
Hi PIAS,
Horse Problems says hay is the most effective, since reading that many years ago. I feed hay instead of chaff. I have managed to avoid sand colic, and I'm in a sandy area too as you know.
http://www.horseproblems.com.au/sand_colic_by.htm

Maybe ask them to feed more hay again with breaky or dinner. Poor Jake, I hope you get back in the saddle soon!

shadowmystique
13-08-10, 03:49 PM
I do every 6 months if they are in a sandy paddock or have little grass coverage.
12 monthly if grass coverage is good...

For initial treatment repeat 2 weeks later for a full clean out.

Mine all eat theirs... but a fall back is a drenching gun... but hopefully one that holds more than 200ml!!!

Pillegro
13-08-10, 04:22 PM
Where do you buy untreated honey?

PIAS
13-08-10, 05:39 PM
Pillegro I found it at the local fruit and veg shop. Or I guess a health food shop?
This one is 'Highland Honey' located at Jilliby on the Central Coast.

Harriette
13-08-10, 08:42 PM
That ratio is too much, use 500g raw untreated honey (cannot have been heat treated) thin in a pot over low heat. Add 500ml full cream milk and 200ml cream stir till combined then Drench horse.


do what??

why is 0.5 kg of honey in 1000ml of milk too much

you advocate
0.5 kg in 600ml of 2.5:1 milk to cream

your ratio more than mine!!
heck woman I am going to start forming the bud of a thought that you dont like me and my recipe.
if I could find enough care factor:D.

wheres my rolly eyes icon *wonders off, mumbling incoherently*

half_pass
13-08-10, 08:59 PM
Are horses even able to drink milk without getting sick?

Are you able to buy a round bale of hay to stick in his paddock so he can eat that instead of grazing over the sand?

Harriette
13-08-10, 09:06 PM
Are horses even able to drink milk without getting sick?


no, thats the point of the mix, that it draws water (honey) and their body expells it as quick as possible (dairy)

I wonder if it gives them belly ache, like castor oil does us
or anyone with lactose intolerance may know (nasty old ripping pain)

half_pass
13-08-10, 09:08 PM
Harriette, that is what I was thinking. I am lactose intolerant and the reaction my guts have to milk is far from pleasant.

shadowmystique
13-08-10, 09:45 PM
The milk creates a rippling effect in their gut, stirring up the sand as I understand it and 700ml of dairy product in a est. 500kg animal will not cause any issues.

As for the too much comment... it was to the 1-2kg of honey and 1L of milk... that would be too much, especially during a colic episode and would be likely to cause a gut ache I think...

When dosed at the rate I posted none of my horses have exhibited any sign of pain or discomfort... and I have a pair of pansies that will wuss over the slightest issue...

Harriette
13-08-10, 09:53 PM
As for the too much comment... it was to the 1-2kg of honey and 1L of milk... that would be too much, especially during a colic episode and would be likely to cause a gut ache I think...


it was 1/2 ....0.5
not 1-2

shadowmystique
13-08-10, 10:35 PM
Oh Sorry! I missread it then!

Ratio would be pretty much fine then, though I still prefer to err on the side of less dairy rather than more.

Centaur
14-08-10, 10:19 AM
Does anyone have any scientific proof that this remedy works? I am all for giving it a go but so far the only proof that it works is people saying it does! Has anyone seen a large amount of sand expelled after feeding this? Have any vets recommended it?

shadowmystique
14-08-10, 10:35 AM
I have seen a horse poo that was about 80% sand, expelled 5 hours after dosing.
I've also seen the difference in coat, behaviour and weight gain once they have been treated... It makes a difference, quite noticably...

Centaur
14-08-10, 10:45 AM
Yes, of course if a problem is treated then you'd expect to see a difference in the condition of the horse. I just think I'd need more than anecdotal evidence before giving a horse a large quantity of something it's not really meant to consume. Not saying I'm not willing to try, just that there doesn't seem to be anything other than people saying 'it's good' to prove it.

Neisje
14-08-10, 11:07 AM
no, thats the point of the mix, that it draws water (honey) and their body expells it as quick as possible (dairy)

I wonder if it gives them belly ache, like castor oil does us
or anyone with lactose intolerance may know (nasty old ripping pain)

It basically gives the equevalant of gastro to the horse. So ok in a healthy horse with just sand to remove, because an upset stomach for a short period wont cause any harm, but it is NOT OK in a sick horse or one that has been suffering with colic for hours/days and so is weak/unwell etc. as all you will do is add further distress to an already distressed horse.

EarsForward
14-08-10, 11:11 AM
I am not being a skeptic, wanting to believe,howver ,what about the effects of so sugars in one hit?
Doing everything to limit uptake in grasses..so is it safe in other ways like honey?

Miniature Lover
14-08-10, 12:22 PM
A few questions....

1. Does the horse have to drink it? or could you mix it with their feed?

2. What ratio would you give to minis? surely you wouldnt use the same for a 60 kg horse...

Harriette
14-08-10, 01:01 PM
I am not being a skeptic, wanting to believe,however ,what about the effects of so sugars in one hit?
Doing everything to limit uptake in grasses..so is it safe in other ways like honey?

the sugars in the honey (honey has more sugars than cane sugar for the same weight), through osmotic pressure (in this case negative pressure;draw) drag water in to the GIT swelling the bowel.
the milk is highly irritating, so there is very little absorbtion or digestion of anything. the GIT movement (peristalsis) increases to expell the irritant as rapidly as possible.
think what happens to your belly when you get gastro, belly bloats, frequent trips to the bathroom, ...well, you get the picture.

the action of high molecular weight ingesta on bowel content is well proven scientifically (used regularly in geriatric medicine), a product containing sorbitol or glycerol works well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbitol. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol.

the use of GIT irritants for rapid evacuation is also well researched and documented. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laxative

the use of a high molecular weight laxative and an irritant laxative for expulsion of static substances from the GIT is intuitive.

the research needn't be done again.
I am sure some powdered senna in molassas, or a few tablespoons of sorbitol or a huge dose of Vit C would also do the trick. but well for convenience, people probably use what is at hand, and milk and honey are fairly common. but all means use a proprietory product if you so wish.
www.joannabriggs.edu.au/pdf/BP_Book_Vol12_7.pdf

EarsForward
14-08-10, 01:17 PM
Thanks Harriette ,I appreciate the explanation.And thanks to those posting the recipe and their observations.

PIAS
14-08-10, 03:20 PM
Have any vets recommended it?

In my original post Centaur I wrote that my vet (an Equine Clinic) had recommended it. He has just recently seen it used with much success in some shetties with bad sand colic. Hence why he suggested I try it.
Also daily doses of Psyllium.

treacle
14-08-10, 05:21 PM
... i've been back and forth from the paddock all day today

*#$*$%& colic.... think it started from the change of feed.... they ran out of the usual stuff at the place i buy their food

40 something degree temp this morning when i arrived at paddock... rang vet.. had 8ml of flunixin on hand... asked if it was OK to administer - used my own initiative and only gave 3ml.. didn't feel the entire bolus was warranted as i could hear gut sounds though (edit: has improved this afternoon) irregular and sluggish sounding.

temp's down to 38 as of 3:30.. will see if temp stabilizes, going back soon to check again... am worried she has an infection from ingesting a splinter from the fence though...

mushed up some of myths poo in a bucket of water and let it stand... recovered a small amount of sand - ... reminded those feeding the spelling filly in the top paddock not to chuck hay over the fence into the dirt but further up on the grass... ... i think we'll give this colic recipe a go (eventually) PIAS and i'll update you on progress.. if it don't work at least it'll taste good...

Harriette
14-08-10, 05:24 PM
... i've been back and forth from the paddock all day today

*#$*$%& colic.... think it started from the change of feed.... they ran out of the usual stuff at the place i buy their food

40 something degree temp this morning when i arrived at paddock... rang vet.. had 8ml of flunixin on hand... asked if it was OK to administer - used my own initiative and only gave 3ml.. didn't feel the entire bolus was warranted as i could hear gut sounds though they were (and still are) irregular and sluggish sounding..

temp's down to 38 as of 3:30.. will see if temp stabilizes, going back soon to check again... am worried she has an infection from ingesting a splinter from the fence though...

mushed up some of myths poo in a bucket of water and let it stand... recovered a small amount of sand - i think we'll give this colic recipe a go PIAS and i'll update you on progress.. if it don't work at least it'll taste good...

very sorry to hear :(
hope all goes well

PIAS
14-08-10, 07:41 PM
Oh bugger Treacle. Hope myth is feeling better. Thinking of you. Do you use WEC as your vets?

So many places on the coast have sandy soil. And it seems different breeds have different ways of eating grass :rolleyes: We recently had another very sick pony at our property and she is a Clydie cross as well. They apparently have a tendency to pull the grass out by the roots rather than cropping off the top. If you look at this mares paddock and Jake's you can see how they literally tear the grass out.

Giving more hay to Jake as an alternative to grazing will just make him eat and eat and I'll most likely end up with a founder problem.
So he will have to be boxed overnight and given Psyllium daily. Up goes my agistment costs but worth it to have a well pony. Hopefully once the grass is through the problem will ease.

Thank god for a professional and alert team where we agist. I love them all :D

treacle
14-08-10, 08:11 PM
thankyou pias... temp was 37.4 @ 6pm + sounds like there is a party going on in her stomach.... hopefully we're out of the woods.

abbott
14-08-10, 08:43 PM
I'm so glad to see this is a common remedy. When my old horse was unwell I read about this as a way to move sand and thought it was worth a try to see if that was maybe a reason for his weight staying down.
I gave it to him in his feed, with in a couple of days he'd stopped eating then developed a terrible case of colic. I found him after work (I don't know what time it started, but I was gone for about 6 hours) and he'd twisted his bowel and was put to sleep.
I often beat myself up about giving him this mix as I've always wondered if it did move a large amount of sand which maybe caused an impaction.(I'll never know for sure as I had him buried without an autopsy). He was under very regular veterinary treatment and on antibiotics for an infected sinus and Cushings and I felt very guilty for trying the treatment without consulting my vet. But seeing as you people are doing it with no adverse effects, I will accept it was bad luck.

midlifer
14-08-10, 08:44 PM
Just got in and read about Myth, hope all works out ok. I have used the recipe from Mr. HP using milk and honey and now do it every six months and give psillium husks once per week. Got a heap of sand from the first dose.

Harriette
14-08-10, 08:48 PM
I'm so glad to see this is a common remedy. When my old horse was unwell I read about this as a way to move sand and thought it was worth a try to see if that was maybe a reason for his weight staying down.
I gave it to him in his feed, with in a couple of days he'd stopped eating then developed a terrible case of colic. I found him after work (I don't know what time it started, but I was gone for about 6 hours) and he'd twisted his bowel and was put to sleep.
I often beat myself up about giving him this mix as I've always wondered if it did move a large amount of sand which maybe caused an impaction.(I'll never know for sure as I had him buried without an autopsy). He was under very regular veterinary treatment and on antibiotics for an infected sinus and Cushings and I felt very guilty for trying the treatment without consulting my vet. But seeing as you people are doing it with no adverse effects, I will accept it was bad luck.

milk and honey has been known to kill horses who were unwell or colicy
are you so sure it wasnt a factor in your horses illness!