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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LisaL View Post
    Remember the hysteria over the EI vaccinations. The claims that EI vaccinated horse's would never compete again, die, be infertile, grow extra heads and legs and cause the end of life on earth as we know it?

    As stated above, the ribbons will decide it, and eventually the naysayers will forget their objections.
    Can't compare LisaL as all the work had already been done with the EI vac and was in use worldwide

    The Hendra vac is a long way from that at this stage. Effects on breeding stock are as yet unknown so do you really think that someone with a valuable breeding stallion or mare is going to go down that track yet.

    I think not

  2. #12
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    I don't remember a hysteria about EI vaccinations, I remember a lot of concern about the virus and its impact on a naive population, and concerns that widespread vaccination would result in the virus becoming endemic which nobody wanted. As Chris says the vaccine was a known quantity, from memory most of the concerns in my experience (and I was in the thick of it) related to the impact of the virus and the inequitable distribution of vaccines. It's a completely different scenario to this one.

    My initial concerns with this vaccine have largely been put to bed now that a large number of horses in the general population have been vaccinated without serious reactions, my main concern now is cost due to having multiple horses and the still unknown issue of frequency of boosters, hopefully once the vaccine is out of the trial phase it will become more affordable and able to be administered by owners. I will get actively competing/travelling horses done but the paddock ornaments might have to wait and see. I also understand the concerns of owners of valuable breeding animals. Concerns do not equal hysteria.

  3. #13
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Hartigan View Post
    Can't compare LisaL as all the work had already been done with the EI vac and was in use worldwide

    The Hendra vac is a long way from that at this stage. Effects on breeding stock are as yet unknown so do you really think that someone with a valuable breeding stallion or mare is going to go down that track yet.

    I think not
    If they are in a Hendra zone, and they don't vaccinate, then they are bloody idiots. Look at the science.

    Instead of running the whole "vaccine will kill you" arguments, people would be better off doing a cool assessment of what will happen if their horse gets exposed to the virus. If it doesn't die, it will be euthanased. It is therefore, a 100% death rate.

    How valuable will your dead mare be then?

    It's OK to make your instructor laugh, just try not to make them cry...

  4. #14
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    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by NikJ View Post
    Yes maybe the investment isnt getting the expected uptake.

    Look I am not walking around with my head in a bucket refusing to accept the vaccine. But it is not a signed off vaccine, we are the test bunnies.

    Only 100 in foal mares have been used as testing stock (now I have read this, so there may be more stock so could be wrong). But we havent seen the results. Yes maybe the mares took the vaccine well, but the foals arent yet born and then are there going to be issues?

    Thalidomide was a great thing too until the babies came out.

    Hence why drugs are given a 5 year testing period before being signed off (ok cant support this, have read somewhere) for us.

    Obviously this doesnt affect me right now as I dont have mares in foal, but I do have two girls. But before I take the financial dive I would prefer to know that this is going to be a 12 or 6 month repeat. Mine arent export quality and I accept that. And like I have mentioned before, I feed and water under cover and fence off any trees that may attract the bats when they are in flower. So I am not just arguing the point and ignoring the possibility of exposure in my own little world.
    It is signed off. They made the decision to release the vaccine in a limited manner because if someone died when the vaccine could have prevented it, then they would have copped more flak from people like you.

    I can just hear it now: Why weren't we given the vaccine? My little baby could have lived if only we had the vaccine for our horses... etc etc.

    Do what you wish. One of the wonderful things about this kind of thing, is that it advantages those who are smart enough to sit down and work through the arguments rationally.

    The rest just get left behind.

    It's OK to make your instructor laugh, just try not to make them cry...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by teetee View Post
    Linon where did you get the 75% figure from? As I understand it we still don't know how many horses have had it and gone undetected.

    Either way I think it's very interesting that there seems to be a sudden rush to require vaccination for this year's show, the cynic/skeptic in me is wondering if the slow uptake has resulted in a bit of a push to sell more vaccines before their used by date
    It's available in public scientific literature, and I checked again with the vets the other day.

    Functionally, the death rate is 100% as if the virus doesn't kill the horse, the vets will have to.

    It's OK to make your instructor laugh, just try not to make them cry...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by G Dog View Post
    My guess is those that want ribbons will vaccinate.
    If you are in a Hendra area, and you don't vaccinate, you have no one to blame but yourself if your horses or you get the virus. Whether you go to a competition is irrelevant. If bats are near your place, then you are in with a chance of getting a dose of the virus.

    Ribbons or no ribbons.

    It's OK to make your instructor laugh, just try not to make them cry...

  7. #17
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    Oct 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linon View Post
    It is signed off. They made the decision to release the vaccine in a limited manner because if someone died when the vaccine could have prevented it, then they would have copped more flak from people like you.

    I can just hear it now: Why weren't we given the vaccine? My little baby could have lived if only we had the vaccine for our horses... etc etc.

    Do what you wish. One of the wonderful things about this kind of thing, is that it advantages those who are smart enough to sit down and work through the arguments rationally.

    The rest just get left behind.

    What are you accepting as "signed off" Linon.

    As I understand it, it is still being tested on breeding stock.

    It is signed off. They made the decision to release the vaccine in a limited manner because if someone died when the vaccine could have prevented it, then they would have copped more flak from people like you.
    Personally I think the vaccine is terrific for people in a risk area but I also think it incredibly difficult for people who have limited funds to look at vaccination of a number of horses at the current cost + the add ons as well of course - Microchip and vets fees

    It a bit like a fire approaching and you have a two horse float. Who do you put on the float and get the hell out of there and who do you leave behind to fend for themselves. Sad situation and could be readily rectified by making it more accessible and yes I understand the cost involved in developing the vac BUT it would be recouped a great deal sooner if more and more horses are vaccinated sooner. Less $$ is more $$ in the long run

    Don't be too santimonious - not everyone has unlimited funds and this could be quite life changing for many who currently enjoy their showing or competing.
    Last edited by Chris Hartigan; 02-03-13 at 09:33 AM.

  8. #18
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    Jul 2007
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    qld, australia.
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    Remember EI and how the thoroughbred industry pounced on the vaccines?
    So then why now are they not pouncing? Why are they not making it compulsory?
    And how many horses does Pfizer need vaccinated to make this trial work?

    The problem is the fact that the RNA are forcing vaccinations upon competitors when the vaccine is not even out of trial stage. Fair enough if it has passed the trial and has been approved (not just that their have been no adverse reactions) but before then making it compulsory is a terrible decision.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linon View Post
    It's available in public scientific literature, and I checked again with the vets the other day.

    Functionally, the death rate is 100% as if the virus doesn't kill the horse, the vets will have to.

    You can only speak for animals which have been tested for it though, most of the horses in the general population haven't been tested for it so there could be hundreds or thousands of horses who have survived it for all anyone knows, how many sick horses have never been tested for hendra? That is the data I would be interested in seeing but of course it's not possible to collect it.

    Either way like I said my competition horses will be done and hopefully the rest but if the cost remains prohibitive for multiple horses there is no point having vaccinated horses if I can't afford to feed them.

    Personally I would rather vaccinate than not because then they are protected from both the virus and the ausvetplan that would doom them if they've ever been exposed to it and need to be tested for whatever reason, but I have six horses and that's going to be hard enough to fund let alone repeating it year after year so I certainly understand the plight of breeders who have a lot more horses than I do.

  10. #20
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    Feb 2006
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    So think of the ramifications of a breeding stallion being vaccinated to attend the show, and it is later found to have caused a defect in it's offspring. Some years down the track. Is the RNA going to accept the legal result of this by pushing the vaccination at such an early and unknown stage? Seems a little careless to me.

    All those screaming the life or death thing about their babies, think about those from interstate and those NOT at risk. Should we really be expected to cover this excessive cost to bring a team of horses to the show? It is starting to look more and more like that showground itself is a health risk in so many ways!

    I would definitely forgo a ribbon rather than a few thousand dollars on a vaccine that is not appearing necessary in my location. Last time I questioned the cost on this forum I was attacked from all directions, but unless this vaccine becomes reasonably priced to do a large number of horses, you cannot ever expect the rest of us to do it, for one show a year, to appease those in the risk areas.

    Yet another "knee jerk" reaction that is becoming so common in our sport!

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