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Berni
29-05-12, 01:30 AM
http://equestrian.cyberhorse.com.au/images/stories/2012/MontyRoberts/Monty100.jpgMonty Roberts is an extraordinary man who has led an extraordinary life.
An award winning trainer of championship horses, best selling author and creator of the world-renowned and revolutionary equine training technique and philosophy called Join-Up®
Monty first developed Join Up® to stop the cycle of violence typically accepted in traditional horse breaking and training. Convinced there must be a more effective and gentle method, he created a non violent training system using the horse’s own methods of communication and herd behaviour now known worldwide as Join–Up. The objective of Join-Up is to create a willing “partnership” in which the horse’s performance can flourish to its full potential, rather than exist within the boundaries of forced obedience.
The Join- Up training method relies on horse and owner or trainer establishing a bond of mutual communication, respect and trust. “You must come to understand that we as horsemen can do very little to teach the horse, what we can do is to create a safe and comfortable environment in which he can learn”.
The principles found in Join-Up provide a non violent basis for all work with horses by Riders, Trainers, Veterinarians, Vet Techs, Farriers and Stud Managers – virtually anyone who works with horses can use these methods to increase their understanding and effectiveness in helping horses fulfil their potential.
The products featured on this site offer practical Problem Solving Solutions, Training Advice and Equipment that will assist you to become a better horseman and help make the world a better place for horses…
This is my life’s work - MONTY ROBERTS


Monty Roberts will soon be in Queensland and Tamworth and Tickets are NOW on Sale. To miss Monty Roberts would be to miss an elightening experience that will change the way you think about your work with horses. His gentle and effective techniques are practised all over the world and will lead you to a better understanding and the harmony that is prized in all equestrian disciplines.



MONTY ROBERTS
The Man - The Horseman - The Legend!




http://equestrian.cyberhorse.com.au/images/stories/2012/MontyRoberts/MainPic450.jpg
Monty is Coming to Australia


This may be your last chance to see Monty Roberts use "the language of
Equus" to start a young horse, to overcome common problems and learn
how to create a willing partnership with horses. This is a lifetime opportunity
to see a master horseman demonstrate his unique non violent concepts.

A day that could change the way you work with people and horses forever.


http://www.gtp.com.au/%7Emontyroberts/images/fade6.jpg





No other horseman has made such an impact on horse trainers all over the world.
The teachings of Monty Roberts have influenced many widely accepted training,
rehabilitation and management practises. To miss Monty Roberts would be to deny
yourself the chance to make some anazing discoveries that will enlighten and inspire!

http://www.gtp.com.au/%7Emontyroberts/images/fade7.jpg





Queensland -
Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th August 9.15 AM to 4.00 PM
Queenland State Equestrian Centre - Caboolture




Tamworth
Saturday 1st & Sunday 2nd September 9.15 AM to 4.00 PM
Australian Equine and Livestock Events Centre



http://www.gtp.com.au/%7Emontyroberts/images/fade1.jpg



Book Now http://equestrian.cyberhorse.com.au/images/stories/2012/MontyRoberts/ticketec.jpg on 132 849
or www.ticketek.com.au (http://www.ticketek.com.au)

or any Ticketek Agency
- Seating is limited and will sell out quickly
* Transaction Fees Apply

(http://www.ticketek.com.au)



http://equestrian.cyberhorse.com.au/images/stories/2012/MontyRoberts/Footer1350.jpg
For more information about
Monty Roberts go to the web site (http://www.montyroberts.com.au/)
http://equestrian.cyberhorse.com.au/images/stories/2012/MontyRoberts/Footer2450.jpg









More... (http://equestrian.cyberhorse.com.au/201205289564/Business-Feature/monty-roberts-coming-to-australia-do-not-miss-this-legendary-horseman.html)

annaelizabeth
29-05-12, 01:41 AM
yay! someone finally using AELEC. Thanks Berni, I'm pretty excited to go see this :)

LetMeJump
29-05-12, 01:57 AM
Why oh WHY cant he come to Melbourne :(

kizzy
29-05-12, 08:02 AM
Type delete type delete. Don't want to be sued.

Samsdonks
29-05-12, 10:20 AM
So what happen to us Victorians ???? Do we miss him, how do we get him to come to Vic. I'm sure there would be a huge horsey fan base in Vic that would love to see him

raffles101
29-05-12, 10:30 AM
I shall be buying tickets!!! :D

I have always wanted to see Monty since I was 10 and first read his books!!

So excited! :)

DB
29-05-12, 10:40 AM
I've always treated Monty Roberts with a certain amount of reserve, as some of things he says and does just don't follow completely through with each other. He's had some terrible slurs against his name, and handled them with dignity and aplomb, so I wouldn't say anything at all about the man himself, who I am sure is a fine horseman in his own right. He has stayed with my best friend in England for a couple of his shows, and she says he's the nicest, kindest person. So.

I jsut have a lot of trouble with some of his techniques. Promise me, that if you go, please please please close your eyes and put your hands over your ears when he does his float loading demo! And do not, buy the Come Along Halter.:o

The rest of his handling etc is good, but it's always a mistake to see that all the work one person does i good. Just take out what you need from it.

Please....? Ta.

Cinderella
29-05-12, 11:24 AM
Im actually in the middle of reading one of his books....and wow, its pretty good how he recounts a lot of his experiences as a younger man. Also of how he ended up getting his dream property! :)

I did read on another forum a long time ago about a few things in teh book that wasnt real...but am unsure of what it was all about

Reata
29-05-12, 11:25 AM
PASS
The book is a lie.
The man is a liar.
Even his name is a lie.
A very good friend of mine went to school with him in CA and his name is Marvin Roberts and he was on the rodeo team.

All those breaking their necks to give this fraud their hard earned cash should do some home work first!!

Put Monty Roberts Lies or Fraud in Google and read for yourself!!

skymare
29-05-12, 12:29 PM
oh for crying out loud, really? the big scam is that people call him monty not marvin? shit if i had that name i'd change it too. it's hardly a lie. it's probably a nickname that he stuck with. so he used to be on the rodeo circuit. he isn't anymore. people change their lives and directions.

k8
29-05-12, 12:48 PM
Quite agree Skymare...name change, no big deal, former life on the rodeo circuit..no big deal...most trainers got a raw start somewhere.... but from all I've read on him in the last decade, his biggest aim is to change history not just his name... too much of his 'autobiography' is questionable .... but makes a great work of fiction...had me hook line and sinker for a few years!

njuro
29-05-12, 01:12 PM
I did see Monty Roberts at Boondall some years ago now, at the urging of a friend who was 'sold' on his techniques. After only about 30 minutes, I told her to put her hands over her ears and not listen to anything he was saying, but instead to watch him and SEE what he was actually doing. Once you disregard the snakeoil-salesman-like dribble that comes out of his mouth, and focus on his body language and his actual techniques, then you can really see what he does.

Oh, and it's not ALL bad. However there's really nothing new there either.... at least, I didn't see anything that got me excited.

mindari
29-05-12, 01:14 PM
LOL

how many know that the victorian face of RSCPCA is Hugh Wirth......or Wirth's Circus fame, born n raised ? ROTFL

mindari
29-05-12, 01:16 PM
NOW theres a conflict of interest if we ever saw one............:cool:

MMC
29-05-12, 01:21 PM
PASS
Even his name is a lie.
A very good friend of mine went to school with him in CA and his name is Marvin Roberts and he was on the rodeo team.

!!

Sounds like a Nickname to me. Otherwise I can understand why one would change one's name from Marvin to Monty. ;)

Renvers
29-05-12, 01:21 PM
Seriously? I remember, when I was very little, mum making a joke involving Wirth's Circus (in particular, the tent) and the (ample) size of my aunt's undies.

ksm77
29-05-12, 01:22 PM
PASS
Even his name is a lie.
A very good friend of mine went to school with him in CA and his name is Marvin Roberts and he was on the rodeo team.

I have no real opinion on this topic as I don't know enough about it....
But I Googled "Monty Roberts" and had a quick scan through a few articles...
It seems that his father was "Marvin" too --- probably why he goes by "Monty" :p

MMC
29-05-12, 01:24 PM
And Tiger Wood's real name is Eldrick Tont Woods. ;)

treacle
29-05-12, 01:25 PM
mindari, from what i can see hugh wasn't part of the wirth family circus, ie: http://www.liveperformance.com.au/halloffame/philipwirth3.html

mindari
29-05-12, 01:27 PM
Is this what your talking about Reata?

rather reminds me of when my Uncle Claude wrote a book about the History of Bankstown and some how failed to mention the existance of his brother Joe........LOL

in them days you didnt mention any family problems, not that Joe was too much of a problem, although someone with no idea of cause and effect can sure get themselves in trouble (joe was simple, so think he as assessed as not passing the age of 7, but even a 7 year old quickly figures if the stove is hot u dont touch it even if someone tells you too. Joe would if you told him too.)

is this the one you meant about Monty?

Horse Whispers and Lies: Poorly written, but interesting if you're a Monte Roberts admirer
Written: Mar 07 '03

The Bottom Line: Although poorly written and sloppily organized, "Horse Whispers and Lies" is a worthwhile read for those interested in horse training and in Monte Roberts.

"Horse Whispers and Lies," by Debra Ann Ristau and Joyce Martins Renebome, is a strange little book. It was written in response to horse trainer Monte Roberts's famous book, "The Man Who Listens to Horses." Essentially, "Horse Whispers and Lies" exists to expose Monte Roberts as a fraud, and to preserve (or rather, resurrect) the good name of Monte Roberts's father, horse trainer Marvin Roberts.

In "The Man Who Listens to Horses," published in 1997, Monte Roberts presented himself as a pioneer in horse training. He suggested that previous horse training methods were cruel and sometimes dangerous to horses, while his methods were gentle, compassionate, and effective.

Roberts's book was a good read. He spoke of his days observing the behavior of wild mustangs and eventually "joining up" with them in a round pen, having them ready for riding within a few days. He explained the language and ways of horses: how they are herd animals, how they bond with creatures and want to interact with them once they trust that the other is not a predator. And he generalized his ideas about horses to humans, and children in particular. Don't make them do things they don't want to do, he said. Work with their natural tendencies and gradually shape them to work in collaboration with you.

But Roberts contrasted his own gentle style with that of an evil man, one who had been abusive toward him as a child, abusive toward horses in his training methods, and a racist cop to boot: his father, Marvin Roberts. In "The Man Who Listens to Horses," Roberts told us of his father's mistreatment of man and beast, the zenith being a beating that led to the death of a black man in California. Roberts presented himself as one who had overcome his abusive past to become a champion of compassion, both toward horses and humans.

According to Ristau and Renebome, many of Monte Roberts's closest associates were shocked when his book came out. Not only did he misrepresent his father's character, they contend, but he exaggerated his own accomplishments over his lifetime.

Ristau and Renebome, the younger Roberts's cousin and aunt, respectively, took it upon themselves to write a book that set the record straight.

Among their refutations of Monte Roberts's claims:

Monte Roberts's training methods were not revolutionary, but rather evolutionary. Several other trainers had been using the methods Roberts put forth in his book, including his own father, the man whose "brutal" methods Monte Roberts claimed to be reacting against.

Monte Roberts's father, Marvin, was not abusive, nor was his mother submissive and afraid of the elder Roberts. In fact, Marvin Roberts was a loving and gentle man, and his wife was an assertive, outspoken woman who operated as an equal in her partnership with Marvin Roberts. Both loved horses, and were instrumental in introducing horseback riding to adults and children in the Salinas area.

Monte Roberts did not really spend months studying the behavior of wild mustangs in the high desert of Nevada. He WAS an excellent rider and a competent trainer, but most of his knowledge of horses and their unique "language" was learned under the guidance of his parents, Marvin and Marguerite Roberts.

Monte Roberts's father, Marvin, was not racist, and was not involved in the murder of a black man while serving as a peace officer. In fact, the elder Roberts came on the scene after the brawl was over. One man was down, and the other being held by the crowd. Robert's father put a blanket under the head of the downed man, and handcuffs on the other. Police records validate the authors' claim that Monte Roberts's story was a fabrication.

Some of Monte Robert's fictitious claims in "The Man Who Listens to Horses" were downright trivial, according to Ristau and Renebome. For example, he claimed to have won and refused a full scholarship to college in football. In actuality, he was a second-stringer at Hartnell Junior College, not good enough to win a football scholarship. He claimed to have met Joe Louis, when he had not. He claimed to have been a friend and advisor to James Dean during the filming of "East of Eden," when in fact the two met only briefly.

But the focus of "Horse Whispers and Lies" is on Monte Roberts's false claims about his father's character. And, in fact, the authors' obsession with clearing the elder Roberts's name leads to one of the book's major shortcomings.

Much of the text of "Horse Whispers and Lies" consists of interviews with relatives and other associates of both Monte and Marvin Roberts. Although the text of these interviews (actually, complete statements by the interviewees) does serve to validate the authors' claims, the content of the interviews too often returns to songs of praise about Marvin Roberts's character. In spite of chapter headings suggesting we'll be reading about something else, we are often subjected to another interview that reads pretty much like the previous one.

The book is also not particularly well written. Although one of the authors was supposedly a "former military journalist," the writing style too often made me think of my Community College students. The prose is not particularly compelling, and there is a strained and bitter quality to some of the writing that is not attractive. As mentioned, the book jumps from subject to subject with no continuity whatsoever, and chapter headings often do not accurately indicate what is coming.

In particular, I would like to have learned more about which (if any) of Monte Roberts's claims about horses and horse training are false, especially as Roberts's book DID influence my work with both horses and kids. For example, do horses really return to the spot of an encounter with a potential predator, as Roberts claims? I recall one claim of Roberts's that was refuted by the authors. I think it involved stallions battling to near death. But I would like to have seen more about whether we can trust Roberts's basic horse-wisdom.

"Horse Whispers and Lies" does succeed in painting a decent picture of the horse community in California from the 1940s or so through the present. There are older pictures throughout, and the interviews often deal with horse shows and rodeos from the days of Roberts's youth. I enjoyed this aspect of the book.

I just wish there had been more continuity and better writing.

Overall, "Horse Whispers and Lies" is an important read if you are interested in horse training in general, and Monte Roberts in particular. If, like me, you were influenced by Robert's "The Man Who Listens to Horses," you should probably check this one out.

I'd give it just under a four star rating for those who are horse people, and a two star rating for those who are not.

OakyPoke
29-05-12, 01:29 PM
All I know is I met the man, he was very lovely. He's a friend of a good friend of mine, and I respect my friends judgement a LOT. Known my friend for many years, if he says someone is OK then they are OK by me.
I've seen a lot of Monty's work over the years and never seen a horse dealt with in anger or disrespect yet.
LIke ANY clinician, you may go along and like some bits, think other bits may not work for you.
I'd expect that from anyone with an opinion and a brain.

mindari
29-05-12, 01:30 PM
mmm

very interesting,


Anti-Monty Roberts Book Review-”Horse Whispers & Lies”
Posted on March 3, 2009 | 1 Comment

“Horse Whispers & Lies” answers the question it has emblazoned across its cover – Did Monty Roberts Trade Truth for Glory? – with a resounding ‘Yes’!

It details Monty Roberts’ life and times in his early years, the years in which he says he was viciously abused by his father, a man he describes as a racist and a murderer as well as an abuser of horses. The new book, written by Debra Ann Ristau and Joyce Renebome, Monty Roberts’ cousin and aunt respectively, successfully counters, point by point, tales told by Monty Roberts himself in his own best-seller “The Man Who Listens To Horses”.

“Horse Whispers and Lies” is remarkable for the wealth of historical research and interviews with people who knew and loved the Roberts during Monty’s childhood. If you can believe what each and every person quoted in the book states, then Monty Roberts’ parents were truly larger than life. They appear as extraordinary role models for all their horse riding students, friends and associates. They taught their students self-esteem and moral values that these children carried into adulthood and then passed on to their own children. Monty Roberts’ parents were so revered, in fact, that the Red Pony Stall Exhibit at the John Steinbeck Center in Salinas, California has been recently dedicated in their honor.

So the question comes, how is it that Monty Roberts is the only person not to have been so positively affected by Marvin and Marguerite Roberts? It is indeed an interesting question and I’m not sure that Monty’s own brother, Larry, who is heavily quoted in the book even knows the answer.

Although Larry did not contribute in the writing of the book, he may as well have, because his quotes are some of the most powerful in their indictment of Monty’s tall tales and forgotten memories. It is Larry who sets the record straight on important points from Monty’s imaginary trip to Nevada where Monty says he learned the behavior of wild mustangs, to an imaginary boxcar that hauled Monty and his best horses to shows around the country to imaginary parental abuses, to the imaginary abuse of horses by his father to myriad other issues.

The authors even cast doubt on Monty’s story of how he came to own his state-of-the-art training facility Flag Is Up Farms in Solvang, California. What is especially remarkable, though, is reading the words of Marvin E. Roberts in his 1957 book “Horse and Horseman Training” and seeing how Monty’s own training techniques merely parrot what his father had previously established: fair and safe methods using line work in a round pen for starters. Perhaps Monty Roberts thought no one would ever drag out a old copy of his father’s book to compare notes.

Monty Roberts is painted as a spoiled child who was never happy enough with all the sacrifices his parents made for him. He is painted as a temperamental and greedy soul whose own actions caused death to one of his own horses and an injury to another¹s’ horse. And lastly he is painted as a man with an enormously unnatural ego. There is a passage at the end of the book, a letter to Monty from another cousin of his named Cheri, it does answer the question of “Why” Monty Roberts would choose lies over truth, it is because his parents were larger than life, people whose talents Monty knew he could never exceed. And yet he so much wanted to do to just that. So he tore them down to build himself up to be larger than life as well.

But as much as the book is an indictment of Monty Roberts, it is also a glorification of two remarkable people, Marvin and Marguerite Roberts, his parents, and a mini-history of Salinas, California in the forties and fifties during which time his parents ran a horseback riding school on the rodeo grounds there. The parents’ history itself spans fifty years, however, and the book is chock full of interesting first hand accounts by relatives, friends, students and business associates.

I have heard charges by Monty Roberts’ supporters that the authors of “Horse Whispers and Lies” are ‘greedy’ or that they are trying to ‘cash in on Monty Roberts’ fame and want to make a killing by selling their book.’ But, isn’t that precisely what Monty Roberts himself has done in defaming his parents and exaggerating or simply making up stories in order to sell his own ‘non-fiction’ book (not to mention videos, caps, tee-shirts, posters, live demonstrations, etc.)? There are some people who insist that the ends always justifies the means. Others cannot fathom such a corruption of truth and honesty. Monty Roberts has claimed that his ends – the humane treatment of horses – is all that really matters. Whatever happened to: “Honor thy mother and thy father” and “Thou shalt not lie”? Exaggeration, lying, omissions and defamation: what an extraordinary means to an end! And money, while being a formidable motivator to many, is not the sole motivator to all.

I previously read “The Man Who Listens To Horses” and found it an interesting, even, exciting at times treatise but it is clearly a fiction as is the man himself. So, for all those people who read and loved “The Man Who Listens To Horses”, I urge them to read “Horse Whispers and Lies”. Because, as Ristau and Renebome so eloquently put it, ‘truth matters’.

USAViews Report:Monty Roberts Sued
USAViews Report: Monty Roberts Just Can’t Tell the Truth
USAViews Report: Monty Roberts Dupes the Press
More Monty Roberts Horse Trainer Fraud Reports

Reata
29-05-12, 02:00 PM
Even his name is a lie.
A very good friend of mine went to school with him in CA and his name is Marvin Roberts and he was on the rodeo team.

LOL Yes, that part was a bit silly by itself!! who wrote that?? LOL
Maybe I should have edited that out too..I did a big edit about some other stuff I would love to tell you all about but I thought better of it!!..LOL
If you want to go see Old Monty, by all means go see him.

Ratbag
29-05-12, 02:09 PM
I've read Monty's books and I've read countless articles online disputing what he wrote but in the end I gave up trying to decide who was telling the truth. Both sides are likely guilty of sensationalism in the name of book sales and riches.
I decided it really didn't matter and I that couldn't care less what his real name is or how many supposed lies there are in his book.
What matters to me is how the man works with horses, that he helps to open peoples eyes to a way of communicating with their horse and that he has given a home and love to dozens of foster children.

ksm77
29-05-12, 02:20 PM
Still don't have an opionion about Monty Roberts... ;) but
There is always three sides to any story - in this case: his, theirs and the truth.
Personal perspective is blinding, as is money.

In this debate (M.R. - Good vs Evil :rolleyes:), it looks like you could pick a side and find enough articles and 'expert' opinions to justify your stand.
If this interests you (and you actually give a sh*t) - go along, watch, listen and form your own opinion based on what you have seen and heard first hand - not based on something you've read, written by someone who may or may not have their own agenda.

acaciaalba
29-05-12, 02:28 PM
have to say i agree with ratbag. i have given up trying to filter fact from fiction. all i know is he is kind to horses, and that has to be better than the alternative. if he can get just one more person to be kind to the horse, then that cant be bad.
i have seen on TV the deer on his farm, who he handles the same as horses, and they are quiet too.
i have also seen some of his foster kids interviewed and he did good with them.
he also claimed Alleged was the most perfectly conformed horse he had seen, and he sold him to Robert Sangster, and that horse went on to win TWO Arc De Triomphs under Lester Piggot.
So he cant be all bad I dont think.

annaelizabeth
29-05-12, 02:31 PM
never heard of any of this.... but I'll still go and check it out, why not its only an hour away and I can't see being informed of different ways can hurt. even if it is just what I don't want to use on my horses...

Red Dun
29-05-12, 02:59 PM
I too went to a demonstration by Monty Roberts quite a few years ago at Boondall (Brisbane).

The man may be perfectly lovely and he seems to be kind to both humans and horses from what you read in his books ......

BUT, I'd never, ever waste my money again. Sorry.

Maybe it was just that I was seated in the right place, but how others could not see the willy of one of the horses slapping it's legs as it was driven around and around and around the round yard is beyond me.

AND that's when he lost me.

Had he admitted he had to sedate it to get it inside the theatre with a huge crowd, no worries, but it was never mentioned.

mindari
29-05-12, 03:20 PM
mindari, from what i can see hugh wasn't part of the wirth family circus, ie: http://www.liveperformance.com.au/halloffame/philipwirth3.html

THANKS, wonder where we could find out for sure? ive been told that by many, two of whom worked with him before moving to nsw, ?

fire_ball
29-05-12, 03:31 PM
Well, if going by an alternative name (ie Marvin to Monty) is criminal enough to NOT go and watch them...

... NOBODY GO WATCH BUCK BRANNAMAN! I was astounded, flabbergasted, shocked, and horrified to discover that "Buck"'s real name is...

Oh god...

Dan.

Shite. All my illusions are gone.

On a more serious note, I love listening to Monty talking on the HRN Stable Scoop or HITM podcasts. He has a great voice and its always a nice reminded to just chill out, relax and enjoy my horses - not turn riding and horsemanship into a fight or a contest. Isn't that worth a couple of glorified books and a pen name? I think so.

ShoeMan
29-05-12, 03:33 PM
PASS
The book is a lie.
The man is a liar.
Even his name is a lie.
A very good friend of mine went to school with him in CA and his name is Marvin Roberts and he was on the rodeo team.

All those breaking their necks to give this fraud their hard earned cash should do some home work first!!

Put Monty Roberts Lies or Fraud in Google and read for yourself!!

I predicted someone would come with a post like this. I'm kicking myself that I didn't predict it would be Reata, that was a no-brainer. LOL

Lots of 'autobiographies' are unmitigated camel dung.

The question is - are his techniques usable on a day to day basis? Some yes, some no I imagine would be most people's response. I found him interesting on a few points. His barrier blanket is used to this day at racetracks around the world, so he is no dickhead. My main whinge was that you had a bunch of muppets running around trying to break in horses in half an hour.

The life story I'm not privy to, so I'm not going to judge.

Good advice about re being a critical observer FWIW.

My $0.02

Reata
29-05-12, 03:47 PM
Ah good!!! Some people DO read my posts!! I was beginning to wonder if you ALL had me on ignore!! LOL

Autumn
29-05-12, 04:23 PM
I wont be going - rather spend my hard earned money on teachers who are worth it.

acaciaalba
29-05-12, 07:55 PM
so who are the teachers who are worth it ?? and how do you know they are genuine ?? how do you know they dont have a monty roberts story behind them too ?? where does it all stop ??

Luckylass
29-05-12, 08:56 PM
You can all learn something from everyone. While I haven't learnt from Monty directly I have had great training from Rob Horne using join up. We don't believe you caqn break a horse in within thirty minutes and I think you will find he doesn't either. Perhaps people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. show me a trainer who hasn't lied about their story at some point or stretched the story. It sounds like regardless of what you think of him he has helped many young people through his foster programs and several prominent olympic discipline trainers use his methods. We have grand prix showjumpers all who would have had handling with some of the monty philosophy. Reata thanks for the info re Monty - fraud wherever his methods have originated they can be adapted into good general horsemanship. People who go away from his clinics thinking they can break in a horse in 30 minutes are just Nongs!

Reata
29-05-12, 08:57 PM
Interesting question aca.. and the same question could be asked of any body we ask advise from. Do they really know what they are talking about or is it just spin to take our money..
I have been lucky to have asked advise of some great horsemen and women but I have also been fooled by some pretty poor ones too.
A lot of people say one thing and do something completely opposite. I try to watch and listen and what I see should match what I hear.
I was also lucky to go to my first Buck Brannaman clinic with no idea of what I was going to see.
I saw some things that I just never thought was possible with horses, so the next Brannaman clinic I took a horse and felt things i never thought possible.
Buck talked of Horsemen he respected, one in particular Ray Hunt. A couple of years later I got the opportunity to go to my first Ray Hunt Clinic. Ray talked of a man who he said was the best Horseman he had ever seen. I was beginning to believe that this way of horsemanship really was the way to go. These guys really could ride and they walked the talk.
So off to the USA I went to meet Tom Dorrance. I never got to meet Tom but I met a whole swag of people who had and who has a great respect for Tom and Ray.
I was hooked, I wanted to know more and more and see more and more.
Both Tom and Ray are now gone but their legacy continues. I feel, and this is just my opinion, that anybody who has spent an amount of time with either Tom or Ray is somebody to maybe seek out as a clinician. I have yet to find anybody who has spent a good amount of time with those guys that I couldn't learn something from. They respect the horse and how he feels about what is taking place. They have timing and feel and know to release so the horse will understand.
Softness, calmness, harmony, respect and clarity are very important to how the horse feels about being around the human.
Anybody can hang up a shingle and call themselves a horse trainer and over the last 20 or so years many have, but very VERY few are true Horsemen.
Be careful there are lots out there who shouldn't be allowed near our precious horses, but on a happier note there are getting more and more who do a real nice job!! :)

Luckylass
29-05-12, 09:28 PM
Absolutely agree Reata we have also learnt from tom Dorrance devotees. We take what we need into our continuous endeavour in how to communicate and partner with our horses from everyone we come into contact with. There are some terrible horseman touting themselves as trainers and from them we learn what not to do! Good on you for keeping Softness, Calmness, Harmony , Respect and Clarity at the core of your interactions.

acaciaalba
29-05-12, 09:32 PM
but again, reata, everyone sees something different in these trainers.
i dont, because i dont look any more ! so not argueing the point here. just debating,,,ok ?
but, i know a bloke,,aussie,,who i would take over any of these fellas you mention. dead now tho. the way he handled horses,,,,rode with no bridle,,no gear,,,just legs and voice,,,quiet,,gentle,,,but in charge. no aggressivness,,,no cruelty,,,,
we all see different things in different people,,,,,
i dont care who they are or how they go about it. if they get one more person to be kind to the horse, they get a nod from me.

1st foal
29-05-12, 09:45 PM
I'm another who was at the "drugged horse" night at Boondall. Hopefully we were all at the same show? He did several.

I've read the books, I use join up, and I agree that he seems to be a lovely man ane is well regarded in the racing industry, but I wouldn't pay to see him again.

I put him in then same category as Pat Parelli - good showman, good salesman and even a good horseman in many ways, but not always for the horse's benefit.

There were several instances at the Boondall show where I thought he could have quit, for the horse's sake. Progress had been made, but obviously not enough for the "show". It wasn't pretty to watch and that was when I was very new to NH/GH/whatever H you want to call it, so I went there eager to be impressed....

Of course, that was, what 12 years ago? Maybe 13, so this show may be completely different....

MMC
29-05-12, 10:01 PM
. His barrier blanket is used to this day at racetracks around the world, so he is no dickhead.

Our own Black Caviar wears one, and when my Non-horsey husband saw it I was able to not only explain what it was, but who invented it. :)

MMC
29-05-12, 10:06 PM
Interestingly, all this debate actually makes me want to go more, and report back. :)

I HATE the rope twirlers, and snake oil salesmen like Pat Parelli.

But,,,, I really want to see Monty. :)

am old enough and sceptical enough that I hopefully can see through the slick Halter sales and see some 'horsemanship' or some bullshit. I'll let you know. :)

1st foal
29-05-12, 10:43 PM
Excellent MMC, I look forward to your report, given I know you and can trust your judgement. :)

raffles101
29-05-12, 11:02 PM
Interestingly, all this debate actually makes me want to go more, and report back. :)

I HATE the rope twirlers, and snake oil salesmen like Pat Parelli.

But,,,, I really want to see Monty. :)

am old enough and sceptical enough that I hopefully can see through the slick Halter sales and see some 'horsemanship' or some bullshit. I'll let you know. :)

Which day are you thinking of going? Saturday or Sunday?
Would love to catch up!

kizzy
30-05-12, 02:02 AM
My OH spoke at length on the phone to Joyce Renebome several times, several years ago. Lovely lady.

k8
30-05-12, 09:27 AM
People keep saying he's a lovely man.... which I find amusing... lovely men don't write lies about their family and make money from deceiving the innocent public.
It's possible to 'use' personality traits to win approval.... I knew a man once who was loved by all, yet behind closed doors he was a liar and a cheat and a brutal person.... Not saying MR is all that...but I am saying that in my world, NICE or LOVELY men don't profit from lies and deception.

Djangoandjacana
30-05-12, 10:33 AM
I went to MontyR demo years ago (15?). Standard chase them round the round pen stuff, saddle up, throw on the jockey and the answer to 90% of most audience questions was buy my halter. It was not however a clinic. I would hope with anyone you would get more out of a clinic than a taster demo.

Snake oil comes in many forms, some twirl ropes, some wear johdies and shiny black boots, doesn't make all so attired not worth investigating. Its always a matter of finding what works for you and your horses.

Reata
30-05-12, 11:23 AM
Hear hear K8!!!
When I'm a guest in somebodys home, even I can be lovely too!!:p

Harriette
30-05-12, 11:41 AM
Surely not!!

Reata
30-05-12, 11:45 AM
OK!!! I lied!! LOL

And Reata isn't my real name!!:eek:

teetee
30-05-12, 12:13 PM
I've seen him twice, first time was ages ago at the entertainment centre, might have been the same one that others saw? Much more of a demo/show type thing, he did stress that the thirty minute thing was to show it could be done without tying the horse up and breaking it down, he said that it should be done in steps over a number of days or weeks so the message that it was a demonstration was fairly clear to me at least.
The later one I saw at Toowoomba a few years ago was more of a clinic, the horses used were local horses and I found it a much more educational and interesting experience, less 'show' and more 'converstional' feel to it, I found it great, some info to take away some to leave behind, doesn't work for all horses but what I saw I didn't have a huge issue with.

As for making money well that's what people do, they all have a gimmick because that's what pays the bills, Parelli sells carrot sticks, Monty sells halters, McLean sells 50 year old psychology references. All the big names make their money, they all have books, DVDs etc, much of what is in their books has been around for many years they just package it into a neat little package that is able to be marketed as a 'system' because that is what people want, they want all the answers in one book, or a DVD, or a lunging system etc.

acaciaalba
30-05-12, 12:42 PM
i saw him put horses thru the barriers at randwick last time he was here, and how he educated them impressed me,,,and Gai,,,he used some of her young horses.
it want all showmanship there, just plain work and i thought it worked well.

md
30-05-12, 05:53 PM
You can all learn something from everyone. While I haven't learnt from Monty directly I have had great training from Rob Horne using join up. We don't believe you caqn break a horse in within thirty minutes and I think you will find he doesn't either. Perhaps people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. show me a trainer who hasn't lied about their story at some point or stretched the story. It sounds like regardless of what you think of him he has helped many young people through his foster programs and several prominent olympic discipline trainers use his methods. We have grand prix showjumpers all who would have had handling with some of the monty philosophy. Reata thanks for the info re Monty - fraud wherever his methods have originated they can be adapted into good general horsemanship. People who go away from his clinics thinking they can break in a horse in 30 minutes are just Nongs!


LOL you only have to read cbh to see the far stretches of truth that I am sure spout out of a few mouths here, if you listen to some 'they are perfect'.