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Autumn
30-05-12, 05:52 PM
I can hear you all rolling your eyes and groaning from here because I know 'feeding' threads have been done to death. But Im interested in not exactly what you feed but if you stick to what you know works or wether you are happy to try something new? wether from new info? new trend? health problems? etc.

Do you change feeds alot? and if so why?

I have been feeding the same way for many, many years with no problems but after getting better feeding information (cause boy there is some cr@p info out there lol) Im now changing to a much lower starch feeds eg: cutting grains back to very minimum and adding copra. Im going to give this a go over winter, for both my big boy and little pony and see if this works. This is not a decision I take on lightly because I always believe to feed a biologically appropriate diet that is not highly processed.

Fair Embrace
30-05-12, 06:07 PM
I'm a sucker for trying new feeds. If something comes on the market that appeals to me or I just feel like spoiling my ponies. Usually I choose one or two horses to try it on especially if they have recently lost condition etc. I always worm them before I start a new feed and gradually introduce it with their usual feed (whilst decreasing the amount).
If after a month or two I don't see an improvement I go back to basics. My horses all eat horse and pony pellets, copra, cracked corn, speedi beet, oaten chaff and lucerne hay. Some get other things as well but this is basically by 'base' feed. Depending on weather and time of year the amount fed will vary.
My opinion is if you aren't happy with the way your horse looks, behaves etc on what you are feeding don't be afraid to try something else. Also many feeds are capable of producing better results for less money which means you can spoil your ponies with new rugs and other things we love but the horses could care less about.......It's the thought that counts.
Just bare in mind that every horse is different so some will do amazing on one feed and your horse may do poorly on that and wonderfully on something everyone else thinks is rubbish. Also, when experimenting with feeds introduce it to them slowly and give it a few months for the results to show:-)

Raennik123
30-05-12, 06:11 PM
I feed the same boring thing to all, just different amounts. Maxisoy, copra, hay and a supplement. After completing Dr Eleanor Kellons basic NRC course in nutrition I stay away from sweet feeds like the plague. If I need to top up a thin horse I would use plain oats and if really desperate Omega weight gain for a short period of time. I mainly have ponies so am always vigilant for metabolic issues and laminitis, so am careful about what they eat.

skymare
30-05-12, 06:12 PM
I kinda can't figure out what else to give my mare. She has plenty grass. over two acres infact. to herself. a mineral block. and a few times a week just for a little extra something some chaff and breeda. i don't want to give her hard feed every day cause she's a fatty, but i do want to feed her foal and i don't know anything about the grass to know what she's getting. i feel like i should be giving her something else as well. not sure if i should feed hay yet. she's at the point where her pregnant belly should be showing, but she's a maiden so who knows. is it fat/is it baby? i'm also worried about feeding hot feeds like oats cause she is still flighty and i don't want overly rich foods cause i know they can be bad for a foal as too little. well i know that is the case after foaling. i just can't make head nor tails of all the feed information out there.
i have never fed the same thing to a horse. each one has been individualised, but then i have never had more than two horses to look after. my last grey filly got a lot of rich foods cause it was a nightmare to keep weight on her. so now i have the opposite problem.

Flike
30-05-12, 07:01 PM
Personalty, I don't change feeds very often. My horses are on grass, bar the one who is in full work and he is on grass and cereal hay. I use to be a serial feed changer, not giving a care in the world about how often I changed feeds. However, after just completing equine nutrition as part of my course, I am sticking to the basics. chaff, changes the pattern of mastication, and 'hard feeds' (oats, packaged foods) can be full on sugar and are like feeding lollies to your horse, so for me, these are a no go zone.

Lucerne hay can also be too rich in goodies that it can also cause problems to your horse. This is why i go for cereal hay. it usually requires more chewing, which is also another good thing.

I now just stick to the basics of feeding.. Good soil, good roughage, roughage, roughage and more roughage.. And gosh - my horse has NEVER looked any better!

And for those who think he wouldn't have enough energy to do anything, he is still jumping, dressaging and trail riding 6 days a week...

Toriadore
30-05-12, 08:30 PM
My 2 are on good pasture 24/7. 11yr old QH mare and 32 yr old pony gelding.
I don't feed hay as the pony cannot eat it. So I hard feed 2x a day. The mare gets calm performer and chaff. The pony gets gumnuts and chaff. They have a himilayan rock salt, good grazing, regularly wormed and teeth done religiously. They both also get apple cider vinegar. I've found that keeping it simple works the best for my 2. The pony doesn't have (m)any teeth so they are seperated to eat or in adjoining paddocks so the QH can't steal his feed. I give them lucerne chaff as well as oaten if the feed is a bit low, sunflower seeds at times for a treat and that's it. The pony has a higher pellett content and the mare has a higher chaff content. I don't tend to change feeds or go for the latest trends.

moosh
30-05-12, 08:45 PM
My 2 (Bax 15hh ASH 12yrs old worked 1-2 times a week & Benny 15.2hh TB 11yrs old Retiree) are both on a small/medium paddock of so so grass, 1 scoop of Mixed Chaff & 1 scoop of Mitavite Xtracool with a tablespoon of Epson Salts per day. Bax also gets Feramo Everyhorse in his feed. There is a half dead round bale of Grass Hay they have access to also. They both look fantastic & in excellent health. Ben has maintained a good 3 score condition & Bax has lost the 50-80kgs he needed to lose & is also now a Body Score of 3 too.

I am less inclined to swap it all around as what I am doing now seems to work. As winter starts to get more wintery I will add a biscuit of Lucerne each, maybe abit more as required. If it stops working then I will look at something else but I am more than happy with how they both are looking.

Takt
30-05-12, 08:57 PM
Why oh why would any horse person feed Copra or Maxisoy?

Horses dont eat coconut and if you knew the amount of issues with Copra, you would never ever feed it. Colics!

As for Maxisoy. It is made in Malaysia and has a warning on the bag not to exceed 40 degrees as it might go rancid. It comes from Malaysia in shipping containers????

There are alternatives to these that are locally made and form local ingredients form manufacturers that have standards.

Do some research or speak to some reps from the local companies

OakyPoke
30-05-12, 09:00 PM
this year has been VERY tough for me financially. Lots of big unexpected bills. While I'm doing OK as it only really means I have to tuck into my ''rainy day" fund somewhat, I am looking at cutting costs whereever I can.
In the past I tried things. People would say ÷h, you feed THIS well....this new thing called THAT is the same but better" so I'd check it out and try it. Feed supplements, I probably honestly fed more than what is absolutely necessary. Like, my horses wont DIE if they dont get their vit/min balancing pellets. And this year no one is getting ridden as I'm studying so everyones on turnout. The oldies get Castlereagh complete senior feed and micro beet twice a day. The żoung uns' get white/green chaff twice a day and soaked hay at night. And only because they are brought into a house paddock with no feed overnight as a chance to get the muzzle off the chubbster for a bit. So I find the only "extras" they need are DCP (we have kikuyu pasture) adn the oldies get Apple Cider Vinegar for their joints. That's it. Everyones glosssy, happy, healthy and quite frankly, dont know if I will go back to 5 different kinds of feed additives, special pellets etc etc.

Harriette
30-05-12, 09:20 PM
Why oh why would any horse person feed Copra or Maxisoy?

Horses dont eat coconut and if you knew the amount of issues with Copra, you would never ever feed it. Colics!

As for Maxisoy. It is made in Malaysia and has a warning on the bag not to exceed 40 degrees as it might go rancid. It comes from Malaysia in shipping containers????

There are alternatives to these that are locally made and form local ingredients form manufacturers that have standards.

Do some research or speak to some reps from the local companies

Because some horses can't manage legume based protein, and are forced to use nonlegume based protein.
Few horses eat oilseeds, or rice, or soyabean, or bran or synthetic supplements out in the wilds of nature.... but most people feed them.
do some research yourself and look at the content of processed stock feeds.
stock feed standards apply to domestic or imported goods, because regulatory bodies don't want bad stuff getting into the food chain...most oils in the supermarket are chemically rancid.

Plenty of easier ways to colic a horse than using soya and copra meal as part of a balanced diet:o:o:o

annaelizabeth
30-05-12, 09:49 PM
I change mine a bit but stick to the same kind of stuff.
Speedibeet all mine get this when in work.
Then I swap between prydes easi ride, bio mare or easi response. Depending on what they are doing.
For the one I'm putting weight on I've also added rice bran to see how that goes, hes looking better then he ever has and is finally starting to put on that last 100kgs he really needed. I bought him as a ridiculously skinny tb. And being 17hh he has been do hard to get weight on.
Finally starting to lose his apex bum and his ribs aren't showing anymore :D

Raennik123
30-05-12, 10:33 PM
Takt, what Harriett said, and more. You are welcome to your opinion but then so am I and other people that feed horses on things you feel are inappropriate. There are many commercial complete fees that should be tossed in to the bin, but if people want to feed them to their horses it is only the horses that will suffer in the long run. I have fed copra for over 20 years, and horror of horror always DRY copra and dry Maxisoy. I feed over 10 horses and have never had a colic, not one, ever.
I like copra and soy hulls because they are high fiber (copra 16% and maxisoy 35%), low in NSC's, and maxisoy has a better mineral profile balance than beet pulp. Copra is deficient in lysine and has an inverted calcium/phospherous ratio but this I balance with the other things I feed because I have had my rations analysed and know exactly what my horses are eating and what they are lacking. I have had my pasture analysed and try to balance my rations depending on the hay I feed.
I have made an effort to educate myself about nutrition as best I can, attending the Safer Grasses Clinics while they were on in Australia. I, along with a few other Australians, completed Dr Eleanor Kellons NRC course
http://www.drkellon.com/images/Alumni_NRC0108.pdf. (Leigh Robertson).
I spent a day at my property with Dr Catherine McGowan when she tested my horses to assist her with her study on equine metabolic disorders. Needless to say I spent the day picking her brain about feeds and metabolic disorders caused from incorrect feeding. I know how to work out the nutritional requirements of various horses depending on age and activity and can balance rations accordingly. So before you glibly suggest that people do some research, consider that they may have done this already and their opinion is different to yours.
For the record, being a sales rep from a feed company does not ensure a thorough knowledge of equine nutrition, but it does mean you have a product to sell. finally, because something is brought in to the country in a shipping container means nothing, except that it was brought in to the country in a shipping container......

BabyBoomer
30-05-12, 10:37 PM
I thought Maxisoy was made in Australia - what Australian alternatives are there.
The biggest change I've made to Solly's diet over the past year is to feed him a scoop of Equisure with his Maxisoy and chaff morning and night - I'm hoping it will protect him from laminitis now that I'm starting to let him spend more time grazing.

Autumn
31-05-12, 10:03 AM
Takt - as Harriette and Reannik123 said also.

I would have NEVER thought to feed copra - because of the main argument of 'its not what horses would naturally eat'. BUT after attending a horse nutrition lecture, give by someone who REALLY knows this topic and NOT promoting their product, the arguments for feeding copra made ALOT of sense. And this is coming from me, one of the worlds biggest seceptics on horse feeds!!!! Im now alot more informed about NSC's and the problems they cause in the horse - down to the cellular level!!!

I have also advised a local elderly lady about this, who has recently got back into horses. Her current, usually well behaved horse, has been playing up. I believe she has been feeding WAY too much feed high in NSC and lucernce and the horse has become fizzy and occasionally difficult to deal with. After I gave her the info she agreed that she was feeding too much and his behaviour could possibly be feed related, so she was going to cut back his pellets and lucerne immediately and see if it made a difference. She was also considering giving copra a try.

Takt
31-05-12, 10:50 AM
If you are after a feed that is low in NSC and is balanced ration for a horse you should be looking at either Hygain Zero or Prydes Easi sport. If you are after fibre fillers there is also Hygain Micrbeet (not sure if it form local ingredients) and Prydes Easi fibre.

Yes copra is low in NSC but not a protein source that horses can easily digest and can cause many issues, which you wont find about or see till its too late.

If you want to feed second rate products go for it, but I am not prepared to risk it.

Also please never advocate feeding either of these products dry.

P.S. Dont you think a shipping container coming form Malaysia might exceed 40 degrees?

OakyPoke
31-05-12, 11:00 AM
No. We ship stuff from Singapore and Japan all the time. If it hit over 40 degrees, millions of dollars worth of our stock would be useless. So no.

Fair Embrace
31-05-12, 11:08 AM
I feed 1/2 cup to 1 cup copra to everything not in work, I don't wet it but I do feed it with speedi beet. Our 28 arab has always been fed copra, he's a picture of health, his weight is wonderful, he's never had colic, so am waitng to see the issues Takt speaks of.......
Up here I couldn't even tell you the amount of people I know that feed copra with molasses in a big bucket as a lick for their horses. None I know of have any major health issues and they've done it for a very long time. As to horses not normally seeking out coconut as a feed source, well my mini is always trying to crack coconuts when they fall from trees, granted she's a little piggy and I often wonder about the welfare of our chickens when theyy are in her yard, but she too is a picture of health.
I would not have fed copra when I lived down south but I've always been a 'clean' feeder, however due to the climate up here copra is a wonderful source of protein, unlike many cereal based feeds it will not put alot of fat around a horses heart and I have found that it will help maintain wweight on a horse during our wet season especially when they have the puffs. In the last few years I have had to change my ideas on how to feed horses due to the difference in grasses, hay availability, feed availability and climate. I'm yet to have any issues with feeding copra.

LindaH
31-05-12, 01:22 PM
I tried feeding copra years ago. I had a fussy horse who didn't like it, so I gave up and haven't tried it again, i'd also heard bad things about hygeine and it's production that put me off. Ours get a simple diet of white chaff, a balanced commercial pellet, grassy lucerne hay and pasture grazing. If the pasture is lacking or they are losing weight, they will get some boiled barley too. A few years ago one of our agisters left a partial bag of Speedi Beet with us that she didn't need. I tried it on our horses and they didn't like it. I tried it again when we got a new horse that was used to it, then gradually introduced it again to the stabled horses. Now they all love their warm sloppy dinner mix. Recently I got a bit of Maxi Soy and mixed it with the Speedi Beet. They lapped it up. I am now going to gradually transition to Maxi Soy as it is a heap cheaper than Speedi Beet. I will stick with the Maxi Soy over the winter, but may have to switch back to Speedi Beet in summer if I notice any problems with the Maxi Soy as it can get pretty hot here in summer.

jordanpearl
31-05-12, 01:38 PM
agreed. i think copra's great. its slow burning (horsey equivalent of low GI) and keeps them insulin sensitive. I feed it to my TB, especially when i have to get weight on him and he's on lupins, definitely balances out the energy he gets from them. we also feed a little bit to our STB, as we're getting him back into work. i highly recommend it, we use coolstance. when you wet it, it goes a long way too.

screwloose
31-05-12, 01:40 PM
Because some horses can't manage legume based protein, and are forced to use nonlegume based protein.
Few horses eat oilseeds, or rice, or soyabean, or bran or synthetic supplements out in the wilds of nature.... but most people feed them.
do some research yourself and look at the content of processed stock feeds.
stock feed standards apply to domestic or imported goods, because regulatory bodies don't want bad stuff getting into the food chain...most oils in the supermarket are chemically rancid.

Plenty of easier ways to colic a horse than using soya and copra meal as part of a balanced diet:o:o:o

I was thinknig the exact same thing!!!!

I rarely change diets once i find something that works. When a new horse is aquired there will generally be changes but try and follow KISS as much as possible.

ATM... my stabled TB gets mirobarley in winter (rolled in summer) Oaten and lucerne chaff, soaked copra and half a dose of equisoy, MSM and cell vital, with oaten and meadow hay.

This is balanced for him. he looks good, holding his weight, and keeping a rather level head.
My mare who is wheat intollerant was also on the same diet.

This works for me, is economical and my boy doesnt seem to have any complaints.

Raennik123
31-05-12, 06:09 PM
Takt can you elaborate on the many issues associated with feeding Copra? I am always interested in learning more facts about feeding and I am unaware of any issues that I won't know about until it is too late. Copra is low in Lysine which is an essential amino acid so if feeding young stock it should be fed %50 Copra and %50 soy bean meal, which has high levels of lysine.
Just so you know, the Prydes Easifiber that you are recommending, is actually bought by Prydes direct from the only importers in Australia, Energreen Nutrition. Guess what it is? Soy Hull pellets (Maxisoy) that has molasses added and is made into their own pellet size. So you are making negative claims against Maxisoy, but promoting the exact same product (probably even came in the same shipping containers )with added molasses.
The Prydes EasiSport you recommend has legume hulls listed as the first ingredient, meaning that it is the highest % of any ingredient in the feed. I have not checked but I would lay odds on that the Legume Hulls is also Soy Hulls, also called MaxiSoy when it is sold by the importers not by Prydes.
Soy Hulls have a better mineral profile than beet fiber which has inverted calcium/phospherous ratios, so personally I prefer to feed Soy Hulls. The reason that so many people feed "fiber fillers" is because horses are fiber fermenters and with out high levels of fiber will suffer in health and performance.

Takt
31-05-12, 06:18 PM
http://www.prydes.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=604:easi-fibre&catid=64:other

Doesnt look like soy hull pellets to me.

Maybe you work for a Copra company Raenik or Maybe Evergreen?

ETA: Actually i never ran down Maxisoy, I only repeated what is on the bag, which is enough to scare me away form feeding it.

Raennik123
31-05-12, 06:44 PM
I work for Qld Health as a Mental health Nurse, but have an interest in all things horse. I wished I worked for a feed company, think they give their staff a discount ?

dante
31-05-12, 07:25 PM
I've fed the same feeds for many years but use different proportions and amounts for different horses. Generally includes Lucerne as hay or chaff, grass hay, oaten hay or chaff, sunflower seeds, oats and whatever vit min supplement the horse requires. All are on mixed pasture.

I'm curious about the use of the term Legume Hulls as I find that double speak like this covers a multitude of meanings.
I personally don't trust this sort of terminology as it means the manufacturer can use the cheapest product, available at that time, that comes under that definition. So Legume Hulls could include peanut hulls, lupins, beans , soy, etc. Some of which I would not be interested in feeding to a horse and, if prices change often, then you risk the bulk of that feed being changed at short notice and without your knowledge.

Harriette
31-05-12, 07:39 PM
That's what generally happens anyway Dante.Grains come off paddocks once a year...(except in the bizarre world of heat and rain above the tropic of Capricorn.)Yet feed companies churn out feed week in week out. They don't store their whole years worth of grain. They buy it every few weeks on the market...and try and get the best product for the lowest cost. This week oats from WA, next week from NSW, next week from SA.The products are always changing....the mix is always changing...to allow the analysis to remain (fairly) constantSo buy from your local farmer..out of his one huge oat silo, and feed the same product for 12 months, or from a feed store and get what they can source to fill their small silo (changing every few weeks/months) or buy from a processing company who offer you a set analysis...and have the products change every few weeks.

Raennik123
31-05-12, 08:39 PM
Dante that would be a problem. I too wonder wha is in feeds when they don't really specify.
A few years ago there was a problem with getting soy hull pellets as they were stuck on a dock waiting for customs. The Energreen Rep advised me to speak with Pryde's because they were the biggest buyer of their soy hull. The Pryde's Rep guaranteed me that at that time all that was in their product was soy hulls and a little molasses to make it more palatable. I bought it to tide me over for a month or so, but it is more expensive than the maxisoy so I changed back. The Prydes Rep was lovely and went above and beyond the call of duty to help me find a suitable feed replacement, very impressed with their customer service.

md
01-06-12, 08:56 AM
Personally I don't change feed all that often, people that constantly change feed and add every known additive ever made are normally those with little knowledge who are searching for something magical to either train their horse or make suddenly have muscles without doing the hard yards.

I fed the same product (in conjunction with Hay and Chaff) for 20 years until I noticed a change in the feed and a change in the horses that was not for the better, I then researched several companies, and came up with a feed that I have been feeding since.

I would never feed either maxisoy (due to what I feel could be serious health issues) or copra (due to it already being banned in some countries due to health risks to the horse), but that is a personal choice.

If you are happy with what you are feeding great, but if not, do some research, and once you have found a feed source that works for you I recommend NOT chopping and changing, not only is it expensive but feeds do NOT work overnight so give them time.

Autumn
01-06-12, 08:59 AM
AND what do the feed companies do in times of drought when grain and legumes are scarce? You cannot tell me they are going to compete with buying food quality or high feed quality grain and pay the bigger prices!!! I believe they will just get what they can for the cheapest price, regardless of quality or what it is - after all they just cook it all up, chuck in additives and sell it to unsuspecting horse owners. Pour molasses on anything and the horses will eat it - this is a HUGE bug bear of mine!!!

Harriette
01-06-12, 09:23 AM
AND what do the feed companies do in times of drought when grain and legumes are scarce? You cannot tell me they are going to compete with buying food quality or high feed quality grain and pay the bigger prices!!! I believe they will just get what they can for the cheapest price, regardless of quality or what it is - after all they just cook it all up, chuck in additives and sell it to unsuspecting horse owners. Pour molasses on anything and the horses will eat it - this is a HUGE bug bear of mine!!!
They buy from interstate, there is never Australian wide drought.
they pay higher prices when the market has only higher priced grain for sale, generally they buffer prices (feed processing is a fairly lucrative business..the company buys at low price and sells at premium price)
the receivers will not take badly damaged, or diseased grain (refer last 2 yrs in SA of the 'tombstone grain' fiasco) so it doesn't find it's way on to the market. There is no 'animal feed' 'human food' grading based on safety characteristics. Feed grading usually related to size, hectoliter weight, or discoloration. Buyers of premium grainss want premium characteristics, the stuff they don't buy isn't rejected because its trashy or unsafe, but because the beer wouldn't brew properly, or the export market wants white grain not cream, or because the bread won't rise as well, or the seed won't yield as much flour, or the flour will have a slight greying.
Feed companies may contract farmers with forward planning. But in essence out export market is many times larger than our domestic requirements, so there is plenty of grain to buy, and generally at reasonable prices.

The processing/palatability manipulation is more related to using unpalatable, low digestibility grains, rather than sub standard grain quality.

Autumn
01-06-12, 09:32 AM
mmmmmmm I may not agree with you here. During a very extended drought time a guy I know at our local feed store MG was laughing and telling me about the conversation he just had with a feed company rep about what they where putting in processed feeds because of the grain shortage and how they got away with it. Prolly not as bad as what they put in pet foods.

Sorry you wont convince me - feed companies are out to make money, so they will buy the cheapest product they can get.

skymare
01-06-12, 11:09 AM
well, autumn, DO tell us what he told you. what do they put in feeds when there are shortages? can't make informed decisions without information. also which feed product was it?

Cinderella
01-06-12, 11:25 AM
Autumn..that sounds scarey!

I love copra....I recently took my gelding off copra becoz he had tummy issues and I was trying to change over to Maxsoy down lol. He lost weight withn a few weeks! He is back on Copra now and has stacked on the weight. I have just changed all my feeds to cut out pelleted feed...as he has had a bout of stomach ulcers :( So at the moment he is on Maxisoy. alkapellets, Copra and lupins. and his vits , mins, joints supps, gastrocoat and yeasacc.

BabyBoomer
01-06-12, 12:42 PM
MD - where do you see a problem with Maxisoy? I found it very useful - esp. when hay is scare and poor quality.

k123
01-06-12, 02:31 PM
I don't change feeds. I've been feeding the same thing for 10 years (the total of my horse ownership) and my horses both look magnificient. The unrugged retiree shines as does the TB. Both are at a good weight. The only change I made was to put weight on the TB and added a little micronised Barley and a cup of oil. Once he got to a good weight, those were cut (6 months or so).

Feed has always been a lot of grassy hay (they now have pasture so that is free grassy hay LOL), a biscuit of lucerene, chaff base and a small hard feed depending on work and the weight of the horse. If weight starts to drop, hard feed (easi result) is increased. If horse is a bit too fizzy, hard feed is reduced. Increases and reductions are in 100g multiples. At present TB has a hard feed of 1kg chaff and around 400g easi result work days and 200g non work days. He was getting more but got a bit too lively recently, so reduced a little and all is good. I never feed over a kg of easi result / day even though the recommended amount is more than that. The reason being that I prefer the horses to get their nutrients from grass if at all possible. So grassy hay or pasture is the predominant source of their feed.

Takt
01-06-12, 05:58 PM
Raenik I think That Prydes would be interested which rep said that and how long ago.

I have spoken to them and the Legume Hull is Lupin Hulls, and Human quality, left over from bread manufacturing.

The product does not contain any Imported materials supplied by the company you stated.

Autumn
01-06-12, 06:00 PM
What I heard they can put in processed feeds when gain is short - out of date breads, human cereals eg: cornflakes, cocopops etc (including boxes!!!), rice, pastas. Anything grain based that is out of date and needs to be disposed off. Instead of the company having to dispose of it they sell if off cheaply.

Quality control? quality ingrediants? suitable for horses? mmmmm I think not.

Harriette
01-06-12, 06:15 PM
What I heard they can put in processed feeds when gain is short - out of date breads, human cereals eg: cornflakes, cocopops etc (including boxes!!!), rice, pastas. Anything grain based that is out of date and needs to be disposed off. Instead of the company having to dispose of it they sell if off cheaply.

Quality control? quality ingrediants? suitable for horses? mmmmm I think not.

That sounds more like a custom feed.
There was a feedlot dairy in SA who was supplied with a balanced mix, which used Twisties as the major protein component.....yes Twisties, saw it on the feed with my own eyes, told by the site manager.

Labled, analysed defined proprietory mixes containing 'alternatives', ...generally unlikely, as the chances of fines, contamination, and loss or reputation is huge.
Not saying it never happens, but I would say it is not a general rule for proprietary mixes.
if a company has no reputation, and is a bit questionable to start with, then I wouldn't be using their products:)

md
01-06-12, 06:17 PM
BB,

We had a pony here for breaking in and the owner supplied her feed, which was Maxisoy and some other stuff and not only did I find it extremely heating compared to what I feed (not the best thing for a breaking time lol), but I also read the label as someone else has above and was not impressed with the 'may go rancid in temps over 40' and while I am sure a few other feeds could possibly do the same thing especially molasses based feeds, the fact that they gave a warning made me go, ok not ever going to feed that, and I don't especially like to support imported feeds :-)

... Taff
02-06-12, 11:37 AM
I often think (yes, I know some of you probably find this highly unlikely, but it's true) ... that it's a- what. Hang on, I better figure out this sentence before I write it otherwise I will be holding everyone up who is reading this, not just myself, and after all it is time for a coffee is it not?

... Taff
02-06-12, 11:48 AM
So, let's say that our horse looks like some ugly creature working at Human Resources and we want to improve the look without resorting to plastic surgery or a whole of body transplant due to 1. cost and 2. trauma stemming from medical intervention.

... Taff
02-06-12, 12:04 PM
(I had to hit post becuase the box was so small I could barely see anything. Now the box is a decent size.) (Which in itself is puzzling.)

So, what do we do?

Let's just say that we choose a product new to the market - the new best thing. It's called 'Super Steed' and it has a picture of a horse wearing a cape clearing a high water jump in a single bound. On the back of the sack is stated a lengthy list of ingredients and reasons (too many to list - they are still going long after space has run out on the white plastic) as to why you should be using this product.

So you buy it. You feed it. Your horse's inner beauty shines through after, say, three months. He has never looked better. Even his roman nose and his buck teeth have transformed and so you rush to a forum on which to share this wonderful event.

On that forum, others are also saying that their steed is also looking amazing. And what have THEY been feeding? Super Steed? Yes! And isn't it amazing? And no, not just because the full page advert in Horse Deals where a man in a jock strap says it is, but because it really is.

You think.

Only, well, yes, it's true that in the meantime we just had a wonderful growing season and the horses had access to that. But that will be glossed over. It must be due to the feed that we bought.

kylieh
02-06-12, 04:19 PM
Yes, I have recently changed my horses feeds. For the first time in many years. I bought a new WB with known ulcer issues, so had to get a few different feed types to accomodate him. I have eventers & for many years (12 +) they have done well on lucerne hay (good meadow very hard to get where I am in Sydney), oaten & lucerne chaff, Equestrian brand Pellets, oats & copra. All have done very well on this diet, if they were competing at a high level, may add sunflower seeds, corn, oil. I also like to keep feed as close to how it started as I can.

Have changed to Mitavite Active pellets. My feed store stopped stocking my previous pellet, & this one seemed to be the only one not 90% bran, which I think is for ducks not horses. The new horse had been on Speedibeet, which we kept him on for a few weeks but have now changed over to Maxisoy. I might have to go & check the labels again Takt, but pretty sure the Speedibeet is imported (guess in a container) from the UK, and the Maxisoy I thought Australian. Maxisoy at $22 a bag also better value than $40(!) for Speedibeet. I am feeding less of it, tho this may also be getting to know the new horse better & how much he needs. I have also added lupins to my horses feeds, as they r well suited to ulcer prone horses, so to keep it simple, other horse gets them too. Still using copra too. So far all good, all ponies look great.

Raennik123
02-06-12, 05:21 PM
Takt I guess it was at least three years ago, maybe more. I am very bad with time. There was a problem at the time with customs releasing things from the dock and lots of things were in short supply. I have no idea who the rep was but it was probably the QLd one, as I live in Qld. I did find the pellet size a lot smaller and one horse suffered choke a few times which he had never done before or since. I dug out an email sent to the group by Dr Kellon about Soybean Hulls for those that are interested.

Soybean hulls have a similar nutrient profile to beet pulp. They are
very low fat, very low sugar and starch, high in soluble fiber.
Calorie content is probably underestimated, likely falls closer to
plain oats than a hay (like beet pulp).

To see the exact differences between soy hulls and ground soybean
meal, go the Dairy One main library and look under protein feeds:

http://www.dairyone.com/Forage/FeedComp/mainlibrary.asp

Soy hulls are used as either a hay replacement or a concentrate
replacement in the diets of other livestock. They are typically used
at a rate of up 50% replacement for the hay or concentrate. In the
US, they are primarily found in equine complete feeds or reduced
carbohydrate feeds. They're an excellent choice for insulin resistant
horses and have a more balanced mineral profile than beet pulp.

Eleanor

It would be great if the people that have claim there are negative issues with with copra or Soy Hulls to be specific and state exactly what they are. I am genuinely interested as I am sure many others are. I remember that some horses in New Zealand died after being fed Copra due to Alfa Toxins but that could happen with any feed. That was maybe a two or three years ago, can't be specific sorry.

Autumn
02-06-12, 05:38 PM
But what REALLY put me off processed feeds was years ago I was advised to feed my older TB Gumnuts. I was willing to give it a go so bought a bag. When I opened it up EEEEWWWWW blow flies flew out and as I dug around in it I found clumps of nuts stuck together and earwigs!!! Obviously at some stage during the processing flys had got in and laid eggs in clumps of nuts which grew to blowflies (how the nuts formed clumps I dont know). Lord knows where the earwigs came from. The bag was NOT broken open or has been wet cause I checked. I threw the bag out and never bought anything like that again!!!

Takt
03-06-12, 11:11 AM
Here is an issue

http://www.nzfarmersweekly.co.nz/article/6823.html

Autumn your experience with one bag from one manufacturer does not mean are all that bad.

wtk
03-06-12, 12:27 PM
I am the queen of feed changing, I am not into premix feeds due to their price but do use fattener pellets, who knows what is in them, pollard and bran and whatever. So that is one that I do use a lot as I am not mucking around with wetting feed down.

Our Stallion is on a premix as he is a fatty but in work and young so needs to keep up his energy and health.

As for the others, the mare is on Breeda cause she too is a fatty and has a foal at foot so another one who needs to keep up health and energy requirements, she was also on Cell-Grow until about a month ago.

My staples are grain mix, sunflowers, wheaten and lucerne chaff. Do feed oats and barley and currently have one on rice bran.

So essentially whatever takes my fancy at the time and what works out cheaper.

I don't fuss about changing diets, no-one has died yet, I up and down their amounts as I see their condition.

Harriette
03-06-12, 02:58 PM
So because unscrupulous suppliers are dumping high mycotoxin copra on the dairy industry in NZ, then all copra is bad.
NB
"Leslie could not say how many farmers had been identified, but a dozen tanker-loads of milk had tested with elevated levels approaching the EU limits."
One dozen tankers.....out of how many


"feed suppliers had been unable to give Fonterra unanimous figures on copra toxin levels, prompting the uniform ban"
So some can, but some can't

"Until they all come to a position, Fonterra is not able to pick whose product we can and cannot allow to be sold.”
It isn't an industry wide issue.



Some grains have identified contaminants, doesnt mean every sample is contaminated.
Hay has been found with deadly leaves of botulinum toxin....killed horses....people still feed hay.


Absolute lack of any contaminant from feed stuffs is impossible. They can't even keep human food uncontaminated.

Autumn
03-06-12, 04:27 PM
'They can't even keep human food uncontaminated.' BINGO - one of the biggest illness and death problems in the USA is salmonella from feed lot beef. Watched a show about this and its positively scarey - there was also something about this recently on the news. Contamination problems are world wide.

Raennik123
04-06-12, 08:50 AM
You have convinced me. Copra is a filthy feed filled with contaminants. Look at this dreadful poisoned bag of Copra that my friend found this morning making her horses breakfast.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/aa443/leighkrobertson/Copra1.jpg

Autumn
04-06-12, 10:19 AM
LOVE LOVE LOVE it Raennik - Im gonna send it to Stance managing director Tim if I may. He is agreat guy and Im sure will get a kick out of this!!!

Raennik123
04-06-12, 10:57 AM
It's great isn't it Autumn. Made me laugh, and I could't help but post it considering the comments that have been made about Copra. :D

md
04-06-12, 11:10 AM
Laugh all you like Raennik, I still would not touch Copra with a 10ft barge poll, mind you I feed a very simple diet, mainly consisting of lots of roughage, always makes me shake my head at the amount of rubbish people are prepared to put down their horses throats, either to save a $ or to get a quick result with weight and or shine.

But your horses your choice.

Raennik123
04-06-12, 11:36 AM
Wow MD you need to lighten up if you can't see the humour in that photo. Feel free to feed your horses as you see fit, and I will do the same. However the difference between you and I is that I respect every one is entitled to their own opinions and don't try to belittle those that disagree with me. I also don't make assumptions as to the reason they feed a particular feed is because they want to save a $ or get a quick result with weight or shine. It occurs to me that perhaps after a lot of investigation they might think that they way they feed their horses is to maximise the horses health and reduce man made illnesses.
Having an open mind, researching and presenting facts and refraining from making unsubstantiated claims about how "rubbish" a feed is can be of benefit as well. I am still waiting to here scientifically factual negatives regarding Copra bar`low lysine and the Alpha toxins which contaminated some feeds in NZ.
Copra is 16 % fiber which puts it exactly between the borderline of roughage and concentrate.

md
04-06-12, 11:54 AM
Did I insinuate that you were feeding rubbish Raennik? I just said rubbish and did not mention any product, yes I think Copra is not a good choice, simply because it is not designed to be fed to horses, but I didn't say it was rubbish, hang around any hackie and try and count the amount of additives they put in their horses feed, (just in case they missed something), honestly when I owned a saddlery some years back I used to fear their horses would throw up (if they could which they can't ) seeing the amount of different additives that were added all in the hope of topline and shine.

Feed a horse a good basic diet, don't swap and change it constantly, provide good training and access to good roughage (ie hay/chaff) and the shine and topline will come anyway.

And I actually didn't even mention the photo, so a bit hard to lighten up to something I totally ignored?

Raennik123
04-06-12, 12:07 PM
My apologies if I misunderstood but you said "I still would not touch Copra with a 10ft barge poll, mind you I feed a very simple diet, mainly consisting of lots of roughage, always makes me shake my head at the amount of rubbish people are prepared to put down their horses throats, either to save a $ or to get a quick result with weight and or shine.
But your horses your choice."
I assumed you were talking about Copra.
I agree that so many people shove so many things into horse feed. How can you add extra minerals/trace minerals when you have no idea what levels your horse is eating? Unless your feed (not soil) is tested and then balanced accordingly you are playing with fire.
"And I actually didn't even mention the photo, so a bit hard to lighten up to something I totally ignored?" I made a comment to Autumn about how that possum photo made me laugh and you responded with "Laugh all you like Raennik" so of I naturally assumed you were talking about the photo. It is never my intention to deliberately offend people and if it comes across that way it is just the problems associated with typing. I have a strong sense of the ridiculous and laugh at many things, so apologies if that is misconstrued.

rmjens
04-06-12, 02:00 PM
Only, well, yes, it's true that in the meantime we just had a wonderful growing season and the horses had access to that. But that will be glossed over. It must be due to the feed that we bought.

One of the most sensible comments I've read on cyberhorse for a long time. :) Thanks for the chuckles too ...Taff.