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LisaL
24-10-16, 06:58 PM
I see that the CBA are going to teach financial literacy in schools http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/commonwealth-bank-to-teach-female-students-a-man-is-not-a-plan-20161020-gs6iat.html

This is horsey related as I've met so many young horsey girls (and mothers) who don't have a career plan other than riding and having horses. I wonder, how many women encourage young women who want to ride to get a well paid career and be financially independent as opposed to, do what makes you happy love and it will work out. Is the financial plan the man? The assumption that your daughter will marry, have babies and husband will pay for the horses? Is there an unvoiced assumption of a man as the financial plan?

Jilla
24-10-16, 07:16 PM
Good grief....surely we've moved on in this 'modern' world???

I find it hard believe that such attitudes still exist. I would have thought young woman are far more savvy these days to hold to such an old fashioned idea such as marrying some rich man for financial security??

All cudos to those who promote to young people good financial advice and how to plan for their futures regardless of what gender they are.

k123
24-10-16, 07:30 PM
Maybe it could be followed with a course "women are not your domestic slaves".........

tgh05
24-10-16, 07:41 PM
geez , I dunno …..whats wrong with keeping 'em barefoot and pregnant… :-)

Linon
24-10-16, 08:16 PM
I see that the CBA are going to teach financial literacy in schools http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/commonwealth-bank-to-teach-female-students-a-man-is-not-a-plan-20161020-gs6iat.html

This is horsey related as I've met so many young horsey girls (and mothers) who don't have a career plan other than riding and having horses. I wonder, how many women encourage young women who want to ride to get a well paid career and be financially independent as opposed to, do what makes you happy love and it will work out. Is the financial plan the man? The assumption that your daughter will marry, have babies and husband will pay for the horses? Is there an unvoiced assumption of a man as the financial plan?

The banks are going to teach financial literacy? I suppose it should consist of units containing things like "rip the punters off by forging their signatures", and "never pay out an insurance claim... ever". Watch the movie "The Big Short" to get an idea of how it really works - fascinating and scary.

There is still the romantic ideal of the perfect partnership/marriage/kids/financial outcome. There are still princesses who are saved by their (wealthy) prince... and whenever someone talks about how they believe they lived a previous life, they always seem to be at the top of the food chain - the Queen of Egypt/England/Kalathumpia who was beautiful/kindly/good. They were never slaves from the gutters, beaten, bruised and abused... Fantasies live on.

One thing I have noticed is that the horse community is disproportionately populated with undereducated females, many of whom left school too young because "they love horses". You need reasonable/consistent money to keep (much less compete) horses to a reasonable standard, and few can make money from horses without compromising the horses.

But then, if you do marry for money, on the bright side, you get to divorce with money as well, but then your sellable beauty is past is use-by date, because blokes with serious money have many options on who they choose to marry (ever wondered why ugly rich/powerful men always marry beautiful women?).

But as for the rest of us, hard work, intelligence and being decent human beings will just have to suffice. And that's fine by me.

:)

cyrus
24-10-16, 10:16 PM
Oh how I wished I never ever listened to Betty Archdale, and married a wealthy man :)
I recall a book she had written about young girls at private schools and how they had to get an education and not to rely on marrying that man for money..... I reckon she had it all wrong , years later... I decided it has to be :D
better still, one foot in the grave :D

acaciaalba
24-10-16, 10:22 PM
few can make money from horses without compromising the horses.


Think Gai . Perfect example. She has made pots out of breaking down horses.
But then she started with pots.

midnightly
24-10-16, 10:50 PM
And we can't make money out of men without compromising ourselves. That includes marrying for money (or any other reason really).

Bats_79
25-10-16, 12:14 AM
I see that the CBA are going to teach financial literacy in schools http://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace-relations/commonwealth-bank-to-teach-female-students-a-man-is-not-a-plan-20161020-gs6iat.html
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1840949952818397&set=a.1376954802551250.1073741825.100007102294220&type=3&theater#
This is horsey related as I've met so many young horsey girls (and mothers) who don't have a career plan other than riding and having horses.

Is it the career plan that you disapprove of or only the fact that more young women seem to embark on it than young men?

It would be a pretty sad world if everyone believed that the only thing worth pursing was financial security. Certainly if you are going to start a family you want to have an idea of how you would support them but is no one to be a daring artist or explorer.

Seems a bit sad.

teetee
25-10-16, 01:44 AM
Oh look LisaL is here to give us all a lesson in morality with some tough talk. That's new. Oh wait, no it's not.

Apart from being belligerent and self-righteous on forums do you ever actually do anything to promote equality of the sexes in real life or are you just happy to judge women and their choices and pretend you're doing it for their own good and not your own ego?

Bohdi
25-10-16, 03:25 AM
I'm with you LisaL, I know too many young ladies whose passion is horses, with little to no career path, and rely on their parents to fund them or dream about marrying rich.

flatland
25-10-16, 07:44 AM
few can make money from horses without compromising the horses.


Think Gai . Perfect example. She has made pots out of breaking down horses.
But then she started with pots.

How to make a small fortune out of horses --- start with a large fortune

cyrus
25-10-16, 08:16 AM
On the idea of parents funding the young one, are they really just fuelling their own dreams to?

LisaL
25-10-16, 09:16 AM
It's parental expectations as well. Have done a few health masters electives as part of my masters. Some comments on a short doco about lifestyles of poor and long term unemployed in Canada -the parents said of their daughter, we don't mind what she does as long as she's happy. The postgrad doctors jumped right on that comment 'the parents don't have any or clear expectations of their daughter'.

I meet horsey mothers who have married money (or are happy living in debt) who often defend their lack of educational ambition for their daughters with the comment of 'as long as she's happy'.

I can't help thinking, so while your man as a financial plan may have worked out for you, is it really ok to expect the same for your own daughter? Further, so many of these same women love to bag out bogans and unemployed, again, how does your lack of ambition for your daughter, which is exactly the same as the bogans lack of ambition for their daughters, make you any better?

The younger women reading this thread, seriously look at retraining and getting some bankable skills, you are not too old to study, mature age students do do well at uni, and a couple of years reskilling can set you up for life so that you can afford horsesz

Linon
25-10-16, 09:17 AM
Is it the career plan that you disapprove of or only the fact that more young women seem to embark on it than young men?

It would be a pretty sad world if everyone believed that the only thing worth pursing was financial security. Certainly if you are going to start a family you want to have an idea of how you would support them but is no one to be a daring artist or explorer.

Seems a bit sad.

It's sad when you think that the only thing worth pursuing is financial security, but it's sadder when you see people who can barely feed themselves neglecting their horses because their dream has overcome their financial reality.

There are plenty of artists, explorers and scientists, who had to face such a reality!

:(

tgh05
25-10-16, 09:57 AM
Financial security is a tad oxymoronish .

A cave bound hermit with a larder full of dried meat and a big stack of firewood might feel very financially secure without a brass razoo in his cave.

Modern folks have "my birthright" expectations of a lifestyle that is light years beyond that enjoyed by someone in the fifties who probably felt they were secure and comfortable.

Pursuing dreams can be a noble ambition , as long as it is founded on a recipe of reality, commitment and the mental and physical capacity to succeed.

Sadly the horse world , along with many other romantic activities, tends to be occupied by a large majority of impractical and ill equipped dreamers with a doubtful work ethic.

Establishing the structure to pay one's way in life must be the primary goal, before dreams can be considered.

I won't name names , but one quite successful au dressage rider and Judge studied very hard as a youngster for a professional qualification that funded a fairly successful dressage career.


…aaaand.. these comments were completely generic , no aspersion is cast on anyone……... I have no idea about any little range wars that may be in progress / happening …don't shoot me….

teetee
25-10-16, 10:14 AM
I'm just amazed that so many people appear to be fully informed about the financial situations of others, so many others in fact as to be able to make broad sweeping judgements about their lives and perceptions.

While I may joke about marrying rich, selling a kidney to pay a vet bill etc etc, they are jokes because well horses are expensive. Does that mean that the people around me are privy to all of my financial details and circumstances? No it does not. Does an advert stating "husband says I must sell" or "I have too many horses" mean that a person is reliant on their husband or that they really do have too many horses? Not to me it doesn't. The horse could just be a prick and they want to get rid of it but of course you aren't going to say in an advert that the horse is a prick so you trot out an acceptable "genuine reason for sale".

Be careful about making assumptions about a person (or their financial situation) based on the face they show the rest of the world.

leesa
25-10-16, 10:23 AM
The horse could just be a prick and they want to get rid of it but of course you aren't going to say in an advert that the horse is a prick so you trot out an acceptable "genuine reason for sale".

AKA: A lie. I'd rather hear that the horse is a prick, it says to me that the seller is honest. If a seller is willing to cover up the reason for sale then what else are they willing to cover up?

When I was looking for a horse, I found an advert that sounded like it warranted an in-person look but their reason for selling was that they were so busy with work and uni commitments that he wasn't getting worked anymore. Sounds fine, except they also had a 'wanted' advert up, looking for another horse. That ruled him out for me. What is so wrong with this horse that you're getting rid of him, want another, and are prepared to lie about the reason for getting rid of him? Perhaps they're hiding unsoundness, bad temperament, who knows.. but they're hiding something about this horse.

Why not just say what you mean?


Be careful about making assumptions about a person (or their financial situation) based on the face they show the rest of the world.

It's just my 2c but don't feel like you have to put on a face for the rest of the world. It'll take up so much of your energy and eat away at you. You are who you are and you're within your right to show that face to the world, who cares what the rest of the world think. You don't have to package yourself up with a facade that the rest of the world will deem acceptable. You're in this world, you are who you are, and you don't have to sugarcoat yourself so that everyone else finds you acceptable.

Linon
25-10-16, 11:00 AM
AKA: A lie. I'd rather hear that the horse is a prick, it says to me that the seller is honest. If a seller is willing to cover up the reason for sale then what else are they willing to cover up?

When I was looking for a horse, I found an advert that sounded like it warranted an in-person look but their reason for selling was that they were so busy with work and uni commitments that he wasn't getting worked anymore. Sounds fine, except they also had a 'wanted' advert up, looking for another horse. That ruled him out for me. What is so wrong with this horse that you're getting rid of him, want another, and are prepared to lie about the reason for getting rid of him? Perhaps they're hiding unsoundness, bad temperament, who knows.. but they're hiding something about this horse.

Why not just say what you mean?



It's just my 2c but don't feel like you have to put on a face for the rest of the world. It'll take up so much of your energy and eat away at you. You are who you are and you're within your right to show that face to the world, who cares what the rest of the world think. You don't have to package yourself up with a facade that the rest of the world will deem acceptable. You're in this world, you are who you are, and you don't have to sugarcoat yourself so that everyone else finds you acceptable.

You don't need to know what a particular persons financial situation is.

But the reality is that horses cost money over a long period of time, and if you want horses you have to be able to pay for them. I rarely get to ride at the moment because we are expanding our business. Does TheBigUnit, Destructor or DottieDogSqwasher care (the name of the newest addition to our family says all that you need to know really)? No, they are too busy stuffing their faces with spring grass.

There are different strategies that can be used to pay for horses - your own job/career, rich parents, rich husband, lotto win, sale of kidneys. But if you are going to go the "rich husband" route (so to speak), then there are pretty dire consequences if it goes wrong. An education/training is more critical now than at any time in history, especially for women. It's something that you can do at any time, in all sorts of ways. But it must be had, and you must have the attitude of it being lifelong.

And once you have a good year 12 education (and I mean education - reading, riting, rithmetic) or above, you can do a lot, and no one can take it away from you. Ever.

:)

leesa
25-10-16, 11:08 AM
You don't need to know what a particular persons financial situation is.

What has their financial situation got to do with it? If a person says they're selling the horse because their non-horse-related commitments leave them no time (note I said time, not money) for horses... but they're also looking for another horse while selling this one... then there is something clearly wrong with that horse that they're not being honest about. It has nothing to do with their financial situation and I can't see anything in what I wrote that would suggest I'd want to even know what their situation is?

Linon
25-10-16, 11:20 AM
What has their financial situation got to do with it? If a person says they're selling the horse because their non-horse-related commitments leave them no time (note I said time, not money) for horses... but they're also looking for another horse while selling this one... then there is something clearly wrong with that horse that they're not being honest about. It has nothing to do with their financial situation and I can't see anything in what I wrote that would suggest I'd want to even know what their situation is?

Sorry leesa I meant to quote teetee.

:)

teetee
25-10-16, 11:42 AM
Since this thread appears to be about judging people on the basis of their financial situation (ie women relying on marrying into money) I assumed that those doing the judging are intimately familiar with the financial situations of others. If that is not the case how is a judgement able to be made without that most relevant bit of information?

My example about the advert was to demonstrate that the situation people present to others is not indicative of their actual situation, therefore unless you are privy to the bank accounts and other personal details of these people how in fact do you know they don't have a financial plan? I don't really care what people put on their ads the point was that just because they have said they can't afford to keep the horse on the ad doesn't mean that is the truth. The conclusions that are being drawn here appear to be on the basis of the scant and unreliable information observable from the outside. I know someone who cried so poor they wouldn't put in a little money towards their fathers headstone when he died, same person had a pool installed on their place that summer. People lie and misrepresent themselves all the time and yet the OP appears happy to lump an entire demographic together as just irresponsible gold diggers.

You say that people aren't making "proper" plans or are planning to marry money. My question is how do you know this?

mindari
25-10-16, 12:57 PM
Since this thread appears to be about judging people on the basis of their financial situation (ie women relying on marrying into money) I assumed that those doing the judging are intimately familiar with the financial situations of others. If that is not the case how is a judgement able to be made without that most relevant bit of information?

My example about the advert was to demonstrate that the situation people present to others is not indicative of their actual situation, therefore unless you are privy to the bank accounts and other personal details of these people how in fact do you know they don't have a financial plan? I don't really care what people put on their ads the point was that just because they have said they can't afford to keep the horse on the ad doesn't mean that is the truth. The conclusions that are being drawn here appear to be on the basis of the scant and unreliable information observable from the outside. I know someone who cried so poor they wouldn't put in a little money towards their fathers headstone when he died, same person had a pool installed on their place that summer. People lie and misrepresent themselves all the time and yet the OP appears happy to lump an entire demographic together as just irresponsible gold diggers.

You say that people aren't making "proper" plans or are planning to marry money. My question is how do you know this?

exactly so.
I remember a lovely family, kids went to private school, dream home, top of the range car.
one day I was asked if I would like to have their car, all I had to do was take over the payments and it only had 10,000 left to pay on it, im talking near 100,000 luxury people n float mover.

everything belonged to the bank, had an ongoing development project n the council concerned didnt pass the deveopment application, they had invested all they had in it. lovely people , they lost everything and no idea where they moved to, can only hope such hardworkers found their way back into solvency

CateH
25-10-16, 02:04 PM
I can say that I know of several people in the horse industry - of various ages, without qualifications of any kind. And I do see this as a disadvantage for them. I know of one young woman who left school early - her horse habit was financed by her father who built the arena, bought her lovely WBs and payed for the lessons. She's OK as a rider, but I don't think I'll ever see her on the Elite Riders squad. She's been working in retail for a while now, and I can see her doing that when she's 60.....unless she gets some kind of certificate or other qualification that leads her into a proper career. That might be Equine related, or not. Every career there is these days, is demanding pieces of paper, including all equestrian disciplines. Unless you're just going to be Charlotte Dujardin, you need to be realistic.

As for the whole question about marrying for money etc. It makes me shiver for any woman who thinks she can get by on that alone. Married or single, you need qualifications, and a job - both of which give you economic agency in the relationship for a start. It's harder for your partner to complain about your horses if you're paying for them too! (Mind you that never stopped my ex... :mad:). Never assume you won't need a job or a piece of paper... I'm helping to run a seminar series on financial literacy for women at my workplace right now - with an independent advisor - and it's scary how much people don't know about money. Super, budgeting, investing, inheritance and succession, all those aspects are vitally important for all women.

If I had a horse mad - and talented - daughter, I'd tell her to go to TAFE or Uni, get a good qualification in some aspect of the horse industry which would give her the ability to ride, and earn money being around the animals that she loved. She'd also have some security. Doesn't seem like rocket science to me....

Cannondale
25-10-16, 06:10 PM
I don't believe this pattern holds true anymore. Not sure where you all live but in our area (metro Sydney) all the horsey folk we know are 90% female and are super stars in their careers and not reliant on other sources for income or funding to continue their riding.

In my adult female clients I have a Dep Sec in NSW Govt, GP, pathologist, managing partner in law firm, physio, psychologist and the marketing director in one of the big 4 banks. Male adult clients an XO in Navy, CEO and a CFO. Smart, smart people.

Of the school and Uni age clients, the females are high achievers all either secured pre-entry to prestigious uni' or are seeking scholarships to international uni's.

School and society is treating our daughter no differently to our son who is the same age and attend the same school (govt)It's all about securing meaningful careers regardless of your gender.

Incidentally, I gave up my corporate career to look after the children when they were born so my wife could continue her career. As well as holding a very senior role, she is deeply involved in STEM and mentoring young girls about their opportunities in the digital workplace.

I believe there would be very few out there that are truly considering a man or same gender partner as an alternative to a meaningful career, horsey or not.

Bohdi
25-10-16, 06:23 PM
We can all pull out individual examples, but in reality there is a cross section of the community who compile of educated self funded riders, riders who "ride" off the backs of "mummy and daddy" some who work 5 jobs to fund their own horses, some who have no money and no job prospects; and the list goes on. And you don't need to know ones bank balance to know who has money and who doesn't in the horse world!! Ha ha

cyrus
25-10-16, 06:45 PM
and then theres poor old me, the squillionaire, FOR Sale.. very cute little horse that any grandma can ride, lack of funds and serious lack of riding ability means he is for sale to the best offer and a nice caring home :)

acaciaalba
25-10-16, 09:13 PM
I dont believe you can always pick the rich bitches from the battling bummers in the horse world.
I know women who are very well to do who slum about in old gear, as does their horse. When I first met them I thought they didnt have 2 pennies to rub together because it all went on their horses. They looked like The Beverley Hillbillies of the horse world.
After I got to know them, and visited their homes, it was an eye opener. And not just one woman , either.
One lady I know looks like, and acts like, a dero most of the time, but owns world class brood mares and has bred some very famous horses and thinks nothing of paying for a mare to go to a high class Hunter Valley stallion, while she sits there in her daggy gear, on the verandah of her 5th generation historical homestead . That very few even know she owns.
But if you saw her around the traps you would think she was stoney broke.

Bats_79
25-10-16, 10:55 PM
Financial security is a tad oxymoronish .

A cave bound hermit with a larder full of dried meat and a big stack of firewood might feel very financially secure without a brass razoo in his cave.

Modern folks have "my birthright" expectations of a lifestyle that is light years beyond that enjoyed by someone in the fifties who probably felt they were secure and comfortable.

Pursuing dreams can be a noble ambition , as long as it is founded on a recipe of reality, commitment and the mental and physical capacity to succeed.

Sadly the horse world , along with many other romantic activities, tends to be occupied by a large majority of impractical and ill equipped dreamers with a doubtful work ethic.

Establishing the structure to pay one's way in life must be the primary goal, before dreams can be considered.

I won't name names , but one quite successful au dressage rider and Judge studied very hard as a youngster for a professional qualification that funded a fairly successful dressage career.


…aaaand.. these comments were completely generic , no aspersion is cast on anyone……... I have no idea about any little range wars that may be in progress / happening …don't shoot me….


Thanks for posting that.

I'd be terrified to meet some of the people posting on this thread in real life. Talk about judgemental. If you don't have a job that gives you the income to get "stuff" then you don't meet the standards that other women expect.

acaciaalba
25-10-16, 11:25 PM
Geez, mostly I dont agree with Bats.
But I sure do here .

Djangoandjacana
26-10-16, 07:18 AM
Interesting read as so many different takes on the OP's intent.

The only thing I took out of it was you are your own responsibility, no one elses. It doesn't matter if its horses, designer clothes, speed boats of a house in the city and another in the country (or France) its not a career plan to sit around waiting for a rich man to snap you up as per Pretty Woman. Odds are against you. Especially if you don't attend the same schools, University, millionaire factory work place etc. If you sit in some poverty stricken suburb or dying country town the wealthy man of your dreams who will worship the ground you walk on and happily pay for your lifestyle aspirations are probably going to be very thin on the ground.

If it happens (and you care about each other) then well and good. But its better to have a plan B. And that plan B could be to become your own captain of industry and pay for your own lifestyle of the rich and famous (and that of your house husband :) )or it could be to build a one room hut in the woods and live of the sale of your macrame. Its not the choice you make about how you live your life but that you are able to make choices for yourself rather than rely on another's good graces.

Its what we expect of men, it should be no different for women.

Of course there are somethings we expect of women that we traditionally don't of men that we should expect of them but that's a whole other thread and way of the topic of horses.

tgh05
26-10-16, 09:25 AM
there are somethings we expect of women that we traditionally don't of men that we should expect of them

Thats a pregnant statement dnJ.. care to elaborate ?


…tho thinking about it….I guess it would be a bit pointless on a femalecentric forum and will just provide everyone with a free kick to talk about what bastards men are

leesa
26-10-16, 10:23 AM
there are somethings we expect of women that we traditionally don't of men that we should expect of them

Thats a pregnant statement dnJ.. care to elaborate ?


…tho thinking about it….I guess it would be a bit pointless on a femalecentric forum and will just provide everyone with a free kick to talk about what bastards men are

It's completely true, tgh.
I've had this convo a few times, amongst groups of girls where a couple of guys have been confused at hearing there are expectations of women that just aren't there for men. The general consensus is disbelief because they don't personally experience the phenomenon but majority of girls would agree with it.

and please don't take a shot. It's not an attack on men. It runs a whole lot deeper than that and I haven't heard any female use it to take a free kick to talk about men being bastards.

treacle
26-10-16, 10:53 AM
"everything belonged to the bank"

it's said we have a little over a year until there is another financial crisis, to which many aussies are going to the cleaners over because so many live on credit: i forsee some very good deals on used farm equipment soon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_role

hey a bit of gender bending keeps it interesting ??? :)

tgh05
26-10-16, 11:28 AM
I haven't heard any female use it to take a free kick

I have .. but accept that stuff like that comes from folks with a particular mindset and does not include the vast majority...

anyway… other than the steadily changing socially unacceptable barefoot pregnant mantra.. tell me about men per se (as opposed to the social system) having gender specific expectations

Are you saying we shouldn't ever compliment an attractive female ( because everyone knows what we want ) ..

or are you saying that as we are generally physically stronger we should never offer assistance.. ( because we are just heavyweight muscle bound bone headed head show offs)

Seems to me that the age of chivalry is not only dead .. it's illegal.

I'm not looking for a brawl , just pointing out that there are two sides to many perceptions…..

tgh05
26-10-16, 11:29 AM
It is absolutely a time to keep one's powder dry



"everything belonged to the bank"

it's said we have a little over a year until there is another financial crisis, to which many aussies are going to the cleaners over because so many live on credit: i forsee some very good deals on used farm equipment soon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_role

hey a bit of gender bending keeps it interesting ??? :)

treacle
26-10-16, 11:43 AM
...... i will never, ever, have a credit card: cash is king

CateH
26-10-16, 12:03 PM
There's a silver lining for me then :p I need a ride-on mower....

My comments are only from my personal experience of course, and are coloured by being a divorcee living on a budget with no real assets. But I've made my choices and I'm happy because I've got my horses and a nice place to live. I get by. But when my marriage went down the gurgler I sure as hell was glad I had good qualifications and experience so that I could get work in Canberra and start again somewhere new.

I'm not pissed off at the ex - I'm grateful for everything in my life which I learned from. The only thing I'd take back is losing my Mum, and only then if she could come back in good health. I just am happy to be financially independent - and mostly solo though not lonely.



"everything belonged to the bank"

it's said we have a little over a year until there is another financial crisis, to which many aussies are going to the cleaners over because so many live on credit: i forsee some very good deals on used farm equipment soon ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_role

hey a bit of gender bending keeps it interesting ??? :)

tgh05
26-10-16, 12:26 PM
otoh.. almost everybody who has made money.. has done it with opm.

Djangoandjacana
26-10-16, 12:49 PM
I meant that expect women to be more open with their emotions, to talk about their troubles whilst men are expected to be stoic and not show the depth of their feelings and certainly not talk about them to other men.

The sorts of things that get bottled up so no one knows they are suffering till the suicide.

Red Dun
26-10-16, 02:07 PM
Goodness, I hardly know what to say :) but it certainly has people commenting on a thread!

I've never understood how a person could marry someone solely for their money?? But hey, if they are both happy who am I to judge?

Young girls seem much more aware of their abilities and options now than we baby boomers were. It sounds like Mums' from the early days, grooming their girls for the marriage mart only!!

Bookra
26-10-16, 02:12 PM
I guess the parents who just want their children to be happy are those who have worked out that money doesn't buy happiness, so I couldn't agree more with that sentiment. Unfortunately, lack of money, or more especially lack of income earning capacity, can buy a whole lot of unhappiness. Anyone who thinks women no longer marry for money (and/or security) needs to come and work with me for a few weeks. My clients come from all age groups (20+) and all walks of life, but many many women have traded self respect and independence for the 'security' of a man as a plan, with appalling consequences. Early on I decided I wanted to own horses, not just work with them, so figured I would have to earn a bit to buy a property so there was no point in aiming for lowly paid jobs with horses. I also guessed that I would probably work for the majority of my life (even though I am now ancient so that realisation came long ago), so I should not only look for a well paid job but preferably an interesting career. I would hate to get up five days a week to face a job I didn't love and have had more than one career change but always loved my work. After meeting a Psychiatrist who worked part time to very successfully fund her comfortable lifestyle and horse hobby, it dawned on me that my career needed more flexibility (time wise and location wise) and a higher hourly rate if I was to continue to fund the horses as well as enjoy them during daylight hours. That meant many years of study as an adult, quite a few sacrifices and a lot of hard work. Now that I am old and decrepit, being able to work my own hours, work from home and earn a good hourly rate also means that I have been able to work around some very serious health issues, a real bonus. The best gift my parents gave me was an excellent education which opened up the possibility of an interesting and well paid career pre marriage and to a lesser extent during marriage. It certainly stood me in good stead when my marriage ended and I returned to study to start a whole new career in my fifties, in order to support myself, my nearly adult children, the horses and the mortgage. A career is a plan, a man is not.

esoteric
26-10-16, 04:21 PM
My 2 cents, for whatever they're worth...

A surplus of money may not buy happiness but a deficit of it can certainly cause misery.

Everything I do is with the goal of being financially independent. I grew up with a mother who was often bitter about the fact that she had taken my father back after a transgression largely because she couldn't afford to raise us on her own. There were times when she felt trapped and was abjectly miserable. I don't ever want to find myself in the same situation (and that is one of the reasons why I will never have children, but that's a different can of worms).

Earlier this year I had the opportunity to move away from my partner (and family) in order to pursue a career I find very rewarding and (mostly) enjoyable. He was devastated when I left but he understood that there is nothing more important to me than my own financial security. I won't let anything - horses, relationships, my hatred of the cold weather here - compromise my financial security which I define as the ability to house and feed myself (and I should probably buy clothing more than twice a year too...). I worked in hospitality while I was at uni and I never want to return to the kind of stress caused by casual work with no penalty rates, no guarantee of hours or continuation of employment, knowing that I'm only ever a bad week or two away from being in financial distress.

tgh05
26-10-16, 08:09 PM
pretty good thread…..

FNQ62
27-10-16, 10:01 AM
I think that women have to be careful not to go the other way and treat men like second-class citizens. It's unfortunate that bitterness clouds the minds of the young as to what constitutes a good relationship. I feel fortunate to be in a happy marriage (second-time round) and gave my daughter an incredibly good role model. We're not rich, nor poor, and after being on my own for so long, it's nice to share the day-to-day things.

Chasing the almighty dollar is not the be all and end all. When death has knocked at your door you realise what's truly important.

cyrus
27-10-16, 11:32 AM
To this day I cannot even imagine why a young girl would head off and Marry that Eddleston fellow ( and I am thinking back to Celebrity Apprentice here) but each to their own I guess.
The thing is men also take it on too :)

treacle
27-10-16, 11:52 AM
eddleston... *ugh*... what a repulsive individual !!

http://www.geoffreyedelsten.com/

Linon
27-10-16, 01:00 PM
I think that women have to be careful not to go the other way and treat men like second-class citizens. It's unfortunate that bitterness clouds the minds of the young as to what constitutes a good relationship. I feel fortunate to be in a happy marriage (second-time round) and gave my daughter an incredibly good role model. We're not rich, nor poor, and after being on my own for so long, it's nice to share the day-to-day things.

Chasing the almighty dollar is not the be all and end all. When death has knocked at your door you realise what's truly important.

Well, if we just treated each other with respect then a lot of problems just go away....

:)

opensky
27-10-16, 07:44 PM
The bottom line is in this day and age (with divorce rates at an all time high), and importantly, for their own self-esteem, young women need to be encouraged to pursue a career of some description to be able to stand in their own two feet. Disney has a lot to answer for...girls waiting for the Prince to make them 'happy' and live happily ever after....

windsweptfarm
28-10-16, 04:11 PM
I've certainly joked about marrying rich...but as a young woman who probably tends to be a bit too headstrong and independent for my own good sometimes, I don't think I could ever rely on a partner for financial support. Pooling resources if I was married/in a long term relationship, sure, but I absolutely need to be able to stand on my own two feet. I was also never someone who dreamt of getting married and having kids, or being a housewife when I was a kid (and my future career plans are definitely not conducive to that!)

md
30-10-16, 09:54 AM
What right has anyone to make judgement on anyone's life choices, financial situation and whether they marry for money or not? Parents generally want what is best for their children, and getting a good education is normally part and parcel of that desire, however not everyone wants to go to university and not everyone wants to get married and have children, it is personal choice and who are we to even contemplate the right and wrong of those choices? Horses are expensive, we get it but if one wants to surround themselves with horses, looks after those horses who cares what their financial situation is, you only get one life to live, live it how you see fit. I really dislike these threads, they come from the wrong place, ie their choices are obviously better than others, no they are not, they are just different, if we could manage to respect the choices others make without judgement life would be a lot more pleasant.

Bookra
30-10-16, 03:24 PM
The thread was about teaching financial planning, surely you don't disagree with that. As to not criticising others, that is fair enough, but it is not as simple as people making different choices in life. What is the reality is that many people are exceedingly unhappy with the choices they make, but they are stuck with them if they have little or low income earning capacity. Being in a relationship where you are powerless is no fun at all, particularly if you have dependent children. Being in a relationship where you are financially dependent and suffering emotional/physical/financial abuse speaks for itself. There is nothing wrong with advising people, especially young people, to aim for financial independence regardless of what their lifelong aims are. Financial independence doesn't necessarily equate to going to university, has nothing to do with your choice of having or not having children, doesn't even have a great deal to do with high income. Financial independence allows people to make choices in their lives. For me, the most important thing about my financial independence is that it allows me to work wherever I want and when I want. What it means is that I am not stuck with having to travel to the middle of the city in order to earn my keep, nor do I have to leave home in the dark and get home in the dark. This has allowed me to enjoy my hobby, to be there for the farrier or the Vet, to be there when the foals are born, to enjoy the simple pleasure of looking out the window at my horses whilst I work. The bonus is that I also don't have to bargain or compromise with another person when it comes to major and even minor decisions about my lifestyle and in particular my hobby. Personally I think if people don't like particular threads they should do what I do and simply not read them :) as there is some excellent advice in this thread and if it helps even one person reading it, then it is a worthwhile thread.

teetee
30-10-16, 03:59 PM
The thread was about teaching financial planning

Really? Could have fooled me then because I was pretty sure it was about judging people and looking down your nose at them.

I'm a big fan of encouraging financial independence. But I'm not a fan of the nasty shit that gets thrown around under the guise of "looking out for others". I call bullshit on that. If the OP were really interested in women becoming more financially indoepenent then she could at least work on her communication skills because to me it just looks like a lot of self righteous posturing and grandstanding. Nothing educational about that.

Question: What's the difference between someone 50 years ago looking down on another woman because they didn't marry well and someone looking down on them now because they did? It was a shitty attitude then and it's a shitty attitude now.

Bookra
30-10-16, 05:57 PM
I love the idea that you can 'marry well' or not 'marry well' :) Something left over from the Dark Ages, surely, when the man was the sole breadwinner and owned all the marital property. My idea of the quality of marriage is that you can be happily married, not so happily married but prepared to persevere, unhappily married, separated or divorced.

teetee
30-10-16, 07:31 PM
Uh yeah that's the point, it was stupid to judge a marriage/relationship on finance then and it's stupid now, so why is the OP referring to it? Why not just say, "hey if you want horses my advice would be to set yourself up to be financially independent"? But no it wasn't phrased that way was it? Why do you think it was phrased the way it was if the intent wasn't to be judgy and condescending?

tgh05
30-10-16, 07:43 PM
Pretty fair discussion imho , and the original post seemed to be fairly innocuous …If you have a beef with the OP why not sort it out by PM ?

Bohdi
30-10-16, 08:42 PM
Uh yeah that's the point, it was stupid to judge a marriage/relationship on finance then and it's stupid now, so why is the OP referring to it? Why not just say, "hey if you want horses my advice would be to set yourself up to be financially independent"? But no it wasn't phrased that way was it? Why do you think it was phrased the way it was if the intent wasn't to be judgy and condescending?

Relax!! You are so obviously making this personal. I see the OP presenting an interesting article, making her opinion, which she is most certainly entitled to and then bringing about a discussion amongst CHer members.

teetee
30-10-16, 09:26 PM
Relax!! You are so obviously making this personal. I see the OP presenting an interesting article, making her opinion, which she is most certainly entitled to and then bringing about a discussion amongst CHer members.

Lol I'm very relaxed :) just pointing out why I think it's a judgy (and rude) post. I'm not the only one who thinks that so it's hardly personal, although I admit I wasn't surprised it was a rude and judgy post since that's fairly typical of the OP but I was surprised to see so many others joining in.

Bookra
31-10-16, 08:59 PM
Don't read it then. What is the difference between making judgmental posts about marriage and making judgmental posts about what people post? You are just as rude (if not ruder) than you accuse the various posters on this thread of being.

midnightly
31-10-16, 09:46 PM
The only thing is ... that it is the girls who are expected to be so dumb as to not concern themselves with an education, career, earning their own living. Never the boys. Oh no ... they're too intelligent.

Why is it accepted that it is the girls who need the education and career, let alone the education in financial planning, and not the boys?

Djangoandjacana
01-11-16, 07:14 AM
I'm still waiting for my financial plan to come to fruition. That one where a hugely wealthy relative hitherto unknown to me drops a few million (maybe with a couple of digits before the first comma) on me in a will. Im not greedy, I'm not hanging out for billions.

I fear however when those funds finally arrive I will be too old to put them to the proper use I had planned for them.

I do keep getting the odd contact from people wanting to deposit large amounts of money in my account but so far none of them have panned out. In fact I'm left poorer by the experience. Money seems to go out of my account rather than into. Luckily I am financially astute however. I only ever give them the account number for an account with hardly any money in it. :) ( Our guide in Namibia who was from Zimbabwe took great delight in telling us the story about someone trying to scam him so he gave them an account number with Barclay's, Harare. They put the phone down on him the moment he mentioned Harare.)

Djangoandjacana
01-11-16, 07:17 AM
This is linked to Treacles thread about womens only clinics . Girls need financial planning training because the banks have recognised its an opportunity to get in early to create customer loyalty. Its a marketing exercise.

Bookra
01-11-16, 05:07 PM
Possibly because the astute women with careers and sound financial security tend not to want to marry men without money :) so the dumb men are safe from being exploited by them.

mindari
02-11-16, 12:14 AM
...... i will never, ever, have a credit card: cash is king

you n my parents , my hubby too would get on just fine

pgr
06-11-16, 02:34 PM
Years ago a friend of mine showing off her kodak moments with her BF
Opening sentence was this is the boat this is Garry, this is the car this is Garry and thats how everything was explained.
And she still is with Garry

The opening sentence in Pride and Predudice still rings pretty true.