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Wannabee Showie (Guest)
25-09-02, 04:27 AM
She finally did it!! Congrats Rebecca Farrow and Stage Whisper! What a beautiful rider and much deserved winner. I didn't get to see but heard the workout was lovely.

2nd Margot Haynes and Kings
3rd Penny Verco and Inferno
4th Pam Ahern and Good Will Hunting
5th Caroline Wagner and WS Applause
6th Rachael Triffet and WS Jordan

Rachael also won the Best Necomer Garyowen entrant. Pretty good for a first go I reckon!!

carly (Guest)
25-09-02, 06:49 AM
Thank you so much Wannabee I have been sitting in front of the puter sooking because I couldnt find out who won. You are a legend!!!!!!!!

Spider
25-09-02, 07:37 AM
Thanks for the results - and congrats to the winner and placegetters. Funnily enough I was only admiring Stage Whisper just the other day, he is such a lovely horse.

Does anybody know if there were many entrants in the Garryowen this year? I know that numbers have been down in the past years.

Johnny's Mum (Guest)
25-09-02, 09:57 AM
There were 43 entrants listed, I know of 2 who definately didn't start, possibly there would have been a few more, but I don't know exactly how many started. Weather was pretty lousy for some of them. Blowing a gale at one stage, I left the grounds around 10.45am - wasn't pleasant then, looking like rain.

Guest
25-09-02, 12:29 PM
Congratulations to all the placegetters. Isn't it a shame to see such a once most prestigious class go down hill each year until it isn't much covered anymore. I looked on the news as it used to tell you who had won. Now there is no media coverage, no cocktail party for place getters no real recognition. I suppose that it is really an outdated event with very few entries compared to years ago when ladies would line the track in their dozens. Our olympic disiplines seem to take the best riders and showing seems to be getting smaller and smaller entries each year. Riding around in a circle and doing a walk, trot and canter doesn't really tax the rider or really show what a rider can do. Maybe if they made the class more challenging and harder to win it might bring in the numbers as of days gone by.

dally
25-09-02, 02:22 PM
About 30 riders started and the weather actually became fine! It was a great event to watch this year and sincere congratulations to Rebecca Farrow and the other placegetters in the 2002 Garryowen!

Jomac (Guest)
25-09-02, 11:15 PM
I'm not a show rider although I have groomed for riders in the Garyowen event a few years back. I inquired into the history of the event at the time, and even spoke with a couple of former winners (from many years ago). Without wishing to detract from the success of the winners and placegetters, it seems the event has lost a lot of it's original meaning and been hijacked by the almighty dollar. I was fairly well gobsmacked by the money spent by both riders I groomed for and their insistence that having "the best of everything" was the only way they could compete against the other entrants. Unfortunately, this attitude was endorsed by a person who is very well known and gives much advice to the show riders.

What amazed me was that not one of these girls bothered with any coaching to have their horses moving correctly or their own riding styles improved. There was talk a couple of years ago about re-creating the interest in the Garyowen by returning it to it's former roots, in the hope of enabling those with less finances a chance to compete, but I guess this has gone by the wayside. By now, perhaps it is too ingrained that the only way you have a chance, is if you have access to a lot of money.

As I said earlier, I mean no disrespect to those who win this event as all the horses and riders look beautiful and how the judges can pick only one combination as the winner is amazing.

Michelle (Guest)
25-09-02, 11:50 PM
Does anyone know where Sharon Wookey placed? I thought she might have been in the top 6!

carly (Guest)
26-09-02, 01:33 AM
Wow some of you people are amazing - it is obvious to me that your own horsemanship skills are on the lower end of the scale if you make comment as to the 'walk trot and canter' being unskilled. Money is at the root of all evils of all sport and I can assure you that given a huge budget would no more buy you a place in the Gazza than it would put you on the Davis Cup squad. The placed riders would excell at any equestrian persuit and some already have. I have little respect for anyone that does not admire the skill in all top competitors in all disciplines - many hack riders have gone onto the top echelons of racing/dressage/show jumping and yes even western. A good horseman or rider is a good horseman or rider reguardless of their chosen persuit. Watch them closely you never know you may even learn something.

MelW
26-09-02, 01:57 AM
LAST EDITED ON 25-Sep-02 AT 09:59AM (AEST)[p]Carly -

I think perhaps you may have missed Jomac's point.

The Garryowen is a VERY elite event, and even though my riding skills are sufficient, there is no way I would ever think of entering (if I had a hack) because of the amount of money the girls spend on gear.

I get away with decent clothing and tack, nothing special and it would definately not win a turnout event. I think that's what Dally means - the ordinary hackie who cannot perhaps afford to buy absolute top range clothing and saddlery, and who has no sponsors (and lets face it, most of us don't!) simply cannot go in the event, because of what it is all about now.

I have a book that was written in the late '80's or early '90s, a lovely photographic journal about Horses in Australia (it's a big book with a great picture of a working stockhorse on the front, in case anyone else has it). In the hacking sections there are photos of Vicki Lawrie etc etc, but there is also a panoramic spread over two pages of one year's Garryowen lineup. I'm not sure how many horse/rider combinations there must be in it, but it would be well over 80. I'll have a look at it tonight.

I for one, am very suprised to hear that the numbers were down to only around 30. I'm not much interested in the Garryowen (as I don't ride hacks) but it is a shame that an event with so much history and prestige should get wiped out like that.

I think you'll find that some of the posters here are quite good riders too! We can't assume that everyone has no knowledge of good horsemanship just by a few words of criticism now can we? That would be rash :).

Mel

*Edited because I got a name wrong!*

Bo diddly (Guest)
26-09-02, 02:15 AM
Steady there Carly. No one's said anybody's "unskilled" .. that's your word. No need to become insulting just because you've misunderstood ... no need to become insulting anyway. I wonder if this was an African Violet society forum, you would say "Probably all your African Violets die in their pots because your watering skills are obviously at the lower end of the scale" ... see how silly it sounds?

"...a huge budget would no more buy you a place in the Gazza than it would put you on the Davis Cup squad." By "Gazza" do you mean the Garryowen? Lol ... never heard it called that before. But I think you're wrong. If you could buy the very best horse, the very best gear and the very best tuition, you're a monty to get a place in the "Gazza". Same as you are in dressage or showjumping. I won't include eventing here because the kind of wild guts and determination needed for 3 and 4 star eventing is something money could never buy.

The thing that sets the Garryowen apart is that the quality of the gear comes into the equation, and perhaps that can override or diminish the ability of the rider. As somebody said, the walk trot and canter certainly doesn't show the rider's ability and perhaps the workout should become a little more challenging so that the really skilled rider got a better show.

carly (Guest)
26-09-02, 02:20 AM
Sure MelW I get mighty hot under the collar when people use the almighty dollar or lack of it as an excuse to under achieve. Sure the Gazza has some outdated tradtitions and sure it attracks some people because of 'the excuse to buy up big' but I can assure you that if you do not have the talent - YOU WILL NOT WIN- Many a rider has won or placed in borrowed gear borrowed costume etc. The good horsemen will always be concerned about fit and quality and new gear will not score highly. So I guess what I am saying is that if you have enough talent the rest of it is froth and bubble. Numbers decreasing is a sign of the times and Hacky Bashing as a national sport is taking the shine of it for the up and comings. I for one just wish the mouth pieces would leave us alone and take up Ballroom dancing!!!!!

Kym J (Guest)
26-09-02, 02:50 PM
Having never competed in the prestigious Garryowen, although I have encountered success in turnouts in other royals, I suggest that the event has been phased into the ether of out of the reach of mere mortals. I am not suggesting that money buys success but the Gods of Luck are on your side if that's the case.

The horse showing "sport" has gone out of the reach of ordinary wage earners and it has moved to an echelon whereby money and the power of the mighty dollar means success. It is impossible to purchase an ordinary, let alone sucessfull, show horse wage earners, and I earn in excess of $45000 per year, are struggling at top competions to keep up with those people who are prepared to buy in at the top level of this "sport". The Garryowen and other prestigious events like it, have skyrocketed to the echelons of the those who are prepared to spend outrageous dollars or who are prepared to sell their souls to the devil(read dollars) to achieve success in these events.

Michelle (Guest)
27-09-02, 12:27 AM
I don't beleive you need to spend thousands on a horse any more.
Look at the kolbeach sale last year, they were tossing out yearlings/2 year olds for as little as $500! Start your own horse instead of buying someone elses push button machine.

And if you really think about it, look at studs in the drought areas, people are flogging off stock dirt cheap because they just don't have the feed.

There are ways and means of getting to the top without spending top dollar! The garryowen is only one event, look outside the square!

MelW
27-09-02, 01:47 AM
Michelle,

as a point I never buy anything over a year old as I like to do things myself, and I have a budget which I refuse to break when buying a youngster. I only buy the ones which have talent and I believe can make it to a high level in whichever discipline I choose.

Having said that, it's the gear that I cannot afford - as most of the horses that I buy cost less than one piece of decent turnout gear! I simply do not have the money to spend to win turnout events like the Garryowen (not that I aspire to).

Mel

Carly (Guest)
27-09-02, 04:33 AM
Look there is no doubt about it hacking is expensive but so is any sport at a elite level. It is a matter of priority - if you want anything bad enough a lack of money wont't make or break you. It is determination - grit -and yes dont forget the talent. I have a hack of top level and the turnout equipment to fit but I do not have the talent of the six placegetters in this years Gazza so I would not compete. I would however be chuffed to provide my horse and gear to a rider that DID have the talent.
As to those that suggest it is a mere walk trot and canter - you have obviously never watched hacking at a top level. The most successful hacks are all doing medium level movements and many a dam site more correctly than some of the appalling dressage I have witnessed. Bad hacking like bad dressage is not a pretty site and nor should they be pitted against one another - they are a different sport. Watch the top level of any discipline and look learn and listen!!!!!

Viewer (Guest)
27-09-02, 04:52 AM
The Channel 7 morning show ran a segment on the Garryowen this morning. The presenters seemed quite amused that people would put white chalk on legs and shave whiskers! At least it was a story............

Cost of Clothing (Guest)
27-09-02, 04:52 AM
ok - so you all say its not the cost that gets you the prize and only good riding. Then what about the poor people who can't afford the $1500 "correct" jodpurs then! They don't get a look in at all. And tell me where else are you going to wear these $1500 jodphurs - not out jumping or your standard Ag shows. Get a gripe everyone - it is about money and it needs to go back to good quality gear that is useful and can be used!!!

nl (Guest)
27-09-02, 05:05 AM
Ah....somethings never change....."the hack ring" still bringing out the best in everyone...

JaYnO (Guest)
27-09-02, 05:48 AM
Hmm, you may think I come from Mars or wherever, but I believe "Lack Of Money Is The Root Of All Evil".

Cost of clothing - I dont believe they were jodphurs. Maybe I am wrong, but dont they wear breeches?

I dont believe that true determination and grit will end up getting you there. If you dont have money, simple - end of story.

Autumn
27-09-02, 06:54 AM
Im sorry but I firmly believe that top level showing IS all about money - end of story. You see it all the time so you cant deny its not happening.

As for show hacks doing medium level work? where? Ive never seen it - what kind of medium level movements are they doing pray tell?:D

Johnny's Mum (Guest)
27-09-02, 07:07 AM
There is DEFINATELY an element of money - particularly for things like the Garryowen. Horsey daughter has the potential (note I said POTENTIAL) to be able to compete if she puts in the work. However, as a family, we simply cannot afford the gear!!!! That is the reality. No if's but's or maybe's. The horse she has now has competed in the Garryowen, he is capable of doing so again, but if she does ever want to do it, she will have to wait until she can pay for everything herself, and frankly, it's not worth it in my opinion. I agree - they need to re-introduce a little reality to the event. Gear that can be used for something other than this one event. It is not reality - who ever rides dressed in gear you are scared to get a strand of horse hair on, other than for something like this. I believe in presenting your horse the best way possible, but lets keep a little perspective shall we hmmmmmm? It seems to me that the Garryowen is losing it's following (not necessarily the word I was looking for) - the numbers speak for themselves, as there are a LOT of horses and riders out there, more than capable of meeting the ability requirements, but how many are competing? Bottom line is - very few can afford it.

Cgh (Guest)
27-09-02, 07:46 AM
Johnny's Mum and other's who know....speaking from my vast depth of ignorance :D :D can you tell me, out of interest, what the dress requirements for the Garryowen are? And if you buy nice gear to ride in, why can't you then use it in other Hack classes? Is it different gear to other classes?

As "our Pauline" would say "ploise ixplayen" :9 :9

carly (Guest)
27-09-02, 11:25 AM
The costume for correctness is based on traditional english hunting attire. The coat MUST FIT is usually black barrathea (heavy english fabric) I picked up mine from an old tailor in our local area - expensive 'yes' but compared to the commercial tailors 'no' - had mine made by a vv good local seamstress. The breeches are also in the same fabric with buttons bought mine second hand - the shirt is collarless with double cuffs - had to buy that second hand as well. The vest is of pure wool and had mine made by same seamstress - bowler with lanyard (so you do not loose it out hunting) purchased second hand. Boots paid a small fortune used them in every class. Stock designed to be used as a splint should it be required while out hunting puchased new! I collected my formal attire over a couple of years and then decided that the hack I had at the time was not going to make it. All of the costume was sold for better money than I paid for it and I did it all on a basic clerks wage.

The attire is only worth 10 points - riding and manners and paces are worth 50 each (if my memory is correct). So if your horse works superbly and you ride like Nicole Uphoff cant see that the small details are going to stop you. Be a better rider have your horse going better and get your gear second hand if thats what you really really want to do. Please do not blame the system or the class there are lots of things based purely on tradition and they have survived the years!!! Dont see why judicial judges wear frocks and wigs and why do the clergy wear satin - its tradition!!!

Cgh (Guest)
27-09-02, 01:22 PM
thanks for your detailed explanation Carly - sounds rigorous.... and interesting as I grew up in the UK, riding, but not hunting.

So, it's basically hunt attire, to a v. high standards by the sounds of it - and with a turnout saddle rather than a GP, which is what you would hunt in?

i guess my question remains, also, if you had all this gear - why not use it in the other classes - not the hat obviously, but the breeches, vest and jacket? Heavy fabric, and totally unsuited to the Australian climate I would guess.

The funny thing is, you can a hunting or hacking jacket in the UK in most saddleries for not too much and have them re-tailored. I used to have several, and I used them as models to have 2 lightweight ones made for Australian conditions.

Johnny's Mum (Guest)
27-09-02, 02:12 PM
Points for Equestrienne Turnout - including the Garryowen

MOUNT -
Conf. and soundness 50
Manners and Paces 40

EQUIPMENT
Saddlery 20
Costume 20
RIDING ABILITY 50
GENERAL APPEARANCE 20

TOTAL 200

carly (Guest)
28-09-02, 02:17 AM
Thanks JM - long time since I looked at the points schedule. Makes you think doesn't it if you had everything perfecto the 'money' side of it only accounts for 40 out of 200 points - mmmm me thinks if you cant ride (realistically your horse wont work that well) you have not got an ice cubes chance in hell of being in the money. No more than buying a top hat and tails and winning a grand prix dressage test at the nationals (that includes buying the horse flesh).
It may seen outdated however the turnout encourages perfection educates as to the fit of gear and its maintance and saftey. I have found that all my turnout gear was sold second hand easily if looked after so it can be quite an investment.
Quite a honour to remember Violet Murrell that children aspire to be part of the tradition and make the podium!!

I don't understand (Guest)
28-09-02, 07:46 AM
Carly I hear what you are saying. What I don't get is if you don't have the talent (your words, not mine) why is your horse at the Garryowen standard? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants, I just don't get why you didn't compete - you've said you have the horse, you have the gear. So why is it if you can't ride to that standard your horse would work (or be educated enough) to work at that level (with someone else). I'm assuming you educated it because by what you are saying you wouldn't pay megabucks for a horse. Why not give it a go, so what if you aren't in the top 6.