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michelle(nz)
23-03-00, 07:54 AM
You may be interested in this web site.
http://www.irishhorse.org.nz/homepage.htm

Jan Heine
23-03-00, 08:10 AM
Thanks for that Michelle - they are taking quite a long time to construct their site - I check it fairly regularly. Celtic Gold is an Irish Draught, Celtic Blue Diamond is an Irish Sport Horse and My Georgina is an Irish Draught. The Irish Sport is a hybrid of the thoroughbred and the Irish Draught.

michelle(nz)
23-03-00, 08:47 AM
i can see why you love them. They are awsome, beautiful and powerful in rolled into one!

tk
23-03-00, 06:35 PM
hear, hear, Friends of mine in Kilmore have been breeding them (more seriously) in the last few years, and each foal just seems to be bigger and more poweful than the last. They seem to have great temperament. I am currently spelling one of my horses at their place, (thbrd) and the comparison in feeding alone would entice a person to invest in an Irish Sport Horse!!!
Not to mention competition strike rate - I'm a fan.

Jan Heine
24-03-00, 09:48 AM
Yes the Irish Sport Horse has an awful lot to offer the equestrian world in all sections! Their temperaments make them sensational for the Pony Clubber/Adult Rider/Pleasure rider - their trainability makes them brilliant for the serious competitor and their power and strength make them seriously competitive. Add to that the fact that they are generally "good doers" and you have got a great horse. I do hope however that people don't breed too much of "the Irish" out of the "Irish Sport Horse" - it was for that reason that I brought out a Pure Bred Stallion and Mare and then added my lovely new Sport Horse Stallion. I am not sure whether people realise that there are only about 3,000 Pure Breds in the world and only about 3 have showjumped Internationally! This makes my Celtic Gold a very special boy because he is only 7 and is only 13 points off A Grade and wins and places in Grand Prix week after week. It is also interesting that Celtic Gold is what is referred to as the "new breed of Pure Bred Irish Draught" - he is incredibly athletic and his foals all have this athleticism without being heavy types.
Interested to hear about the ones being bred in Kilmore - I like to keep up with who is breeding what - let me know either here or by email.

tk
24-03-00, 12:24 PM
Jan, the couple in Kilmore are Sue and Chris Tufnell. Their place is called "Tullow Stud". They have (I think) 4 youngsters at the moment, and the two who are doing very well are a Gelding by the name of Wogan, who is HUGE (not shouting, emphasising) and a 4yo mare who is doing very well, both showing and eventing. Apparently she cleaned up at the recent breed show, won her 3 classes and then took out Supreme Ridden exhibit. and has had 2 starts eventing (Wangaratta and Little Wandin) placing in both. (Training level at this early stage of what looks like it's going to be a great career)In fact, Sue wrote some interesting notes regarding ISH performance in February's THM. .... Badminton 3DE: 1st 1991, The Irishman, 1st 92 King William, 1st 94 Horton Point, 1st 95 Eagle Lion, 1st 97 Custom Made, 1st 98 World Perfect. All ISHorses, she closes with the comment(partly in reply to the recent debate) "it's a mix of strength, soundness, stamina that makes the performance horse, so don't write off the Irish Sport Horse as a "clumper" destined for the lower grades.

Caroline
25-03-00, 02:21 AM
Jan just wondering why you wouldn't be taking your stallions this weekend to the Australian Chmpionships? I thought you would be taking them there as you don't get much more promotion than taking your horse to a huge show like that? Are you taking your horse to the Sydney Royal?

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 02:45 AM
Hey Caroline - fair question and the answer is:
Checked the program when it first came out and there was only one class for the 4 year old stallion and it was on the first day - that means he would be standing around in a small yard for 4 days for one class - we also had concerns at the time of entries about the weather - he only arrived in December and has never experienced heat like we have here - the weather was also a concern for him with the travelling (12 hour trip for us) - in Ireland they do not have to travel huge distance - the longest trip he had done (before coming to Australia) was 1 hour from home. So that is why no Blue Diamond. The rest of the program was also unsuitable for Celtic Gold - I think (from memory) he had two classes and it really didn't seem worth the trip for two classes for him. I am very strict (as is Harley) about preparing the horses properly for a "long term" competition life and this means we are very careful not to over face any of our horses and so we start them appropriately. Little Nitro is A Grade but not ready to jump in an Olympic Selection class which is what the big classes are - again no point in frightening the little guy half to death and then he will never jump again.Blue Chip is also only 4 year old and so would have just the one class on the first day. Celtic Gold did get into Sydney Royal but we declined the entry as we decided instead to come to Mt Gambier for the Easter Jumping Festival because we can take the whole team - it is a great program for ALL of them - and it is only a 6 hour trip for us. Sydney Royal would be 10 days, long trip for one horse.
As to promoting my horses - they promote themselves and I actually did not buy them to "make money" from them out of service fees. I bought them first and foremost because they have extraordinary jumping ability and will (I believe) jump Internationally (when they are ready) and the fact that they are stallions means that secondly I can breed for ourselves - meaning that we will eventually never have to "buy" another horse as we will have our own supply of well trained, well bred and sound horses. I only take a very limited number of outside mares and both the boys books are pretty close to full for next season - from mares from all over Australia without them leaving Victoria at this point in time. Celtic Blue Diamond is 4 year old and celtic Gold is 7 year old - neither are in a hurry as they have long careers ahead of them and if we look after them now we will still have them jumping at top level at 20 years of age and that is the "big picture" - I have a problem with so many jumpers in Australia who only see the "small picture" and then "bleat" when their horses break down or die! Producing exceptional horses takes time and patience - Harley and I have both. If you are form SA will you be at Mt Gambier? If so you will see the gang there!
Sorry about the length of this answer but your question dserved the full answer.

Simone
25-03-00, 03:26 AM
I have been following this discussion with some interest as I am searching around for a suitable type of dressage horse to buy. What you have said about ISH has sparked my curiosity. Are they suitable for dressage in your opinion and/or are there any competing at the moment?

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 03:58 AM
Celtic Gold was only just C Grade at the beginning of the jumping season - he is now 13 points away from A Grade!

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 04:04 AM
Yes Simone I believe there are a few in Australia doing Dressage. My Pure Bred Irish Draught mare is about to begin her Dressage career with Rebecca Fenner. She is 4 year old - and has lovely movement - good enough for a rider of Rebecca's calibre to decide to compete her. The thing which has impressed Rebecca is the brain and trainability of these horse. She trains both the stallions and the mare in their Dressage work and says all 3 are incredibly trainable, willing and most importantly, there is "no dirt in them" - Rebecca is only a tiny "slip of a thing" and the boys are very big, strong stallions but they have never given her a moments concern and My Georgina is the same. We are in fact currently looking for a big, good moving thoroughbred stallion for My Georgina to try and breed a Dressage horse and we are looking for the same in a mare to put to the boys to breed, again, dressage horses - so all I can say to you Simone is that we are breeding for Dressage (for Rebecca to train and ride) as well as for showjumping and so obviously WE believe they have what it takes.

Michelle(nz)
25-03-00, 04:41 AM
Thats quite a feat Jan, Well done to you and Harley! How did your partnership with Harley come about?

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 04:59 AM
I was desperately searching for "the right person" to ride Celtic Gold who was a young stallion with an enormous amount of potential - and being a stallion he needed the right sort of person to train and compete him. My Irish friends have the most wonderful saying:
You tell a gelding what to do
You negotiate with a stallion and
You trick the mare into believing it was her idea in the first place!

In line with this saying I went to comp after comp and watched various riders and their horses. It was hard not to notice Harley - he had a bitch of a mare "Tristina" who kicked and bit constantly - I never saw Harley raise a hand to her or yell at her - he simply worked around the problem - she wore a muzzle and he was "very bloody quick" when putting on and taking off boots to avoid being kicked! His way with her impressed me and when I chatted with him about it he explained he had taken her from beginner (no points) through to Grand Prix and appreciated that her attitude was what gave her the ability to jump big fences well. Sounded good to me. Then I was chatting with my biggest brother about my dilemma and he suggested Harley (knew him quite well through his wife who was a childhood friend of Harley's) - and so harley and I discussed the possibility of him riding Celtic Gold who was already with Rebecca for training in his Dressage work (it is more than flatwork training) and so began a wonderful partnership. Celtic Gold and harley have a mutual respect for each other and it is wonderful to see them in the ring together - the horse tries ALL the time for Harley and Harley gives equally back to the horse. That is what a wonderful partnership is - especially between man and stallion - mutual respect and admiration! This worked out so well that we built a truck together and then purchased Blue Diamond - yet another partnership which is forming daily in front of my eyes. It is classic to watch Harley with the "boys" - they actually enjoy each others company! I am in the middle of putting together a promotional video and have decided that the "play time in the arena" with Harley, Rebecca and the boys really needs to be included. Rebecca is on board and whichever horse will follow Harley (on foot) around the arena wherever he goes. Then when the game becomes boring said horse will come bearing down on me (at the gate) for a polo mint signalling the game is over! Very cute - can you get the visual or is it a case of "you had to be there"?

Bria
25-03-00, 06:58 AM
Jan, some years ago i was watching the Royal Show at Adeliade and i saw an Irish Sport horse there Holy Diamond I think a guy called Brooke was riding him, was this on of yours? If so how come Brook doesn't ride the other stallions?

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 07:21 AM
Yes Holy Diamond was also mine - you have a very good memory - it was August 1997 and unfortunately he died at Melbourne Royal shortly after that.
Yes it was Brook riding him - in answer to your question:

Things change - not being rude but that is the answer.

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 07:34 AM
Forgot to add that Holy Diamond was actually a Pure Bred Irish Draught not a Sport Horse. There is a big difference - sorry to seem pedantic.

Penny
25-03-00, 07:53 AM
There is a big difference! but remember Jan that Holy Diamond although pure in blood was only classed as an Supplementary 1 stallion due to a confimational fault. He was not accepted as a pure bred in the Irish or Australian Irish Draught Societies.

Rosemary
25-03-00, 02:46 PM
Jan, I'm sorry about Holy Diamond's baptism and confirmation. I had no idea that he hadn't been accepted into the church, and it's probably your fault because you're such an up front straight down the line person - gets up a few noses, you know. A horse as talented as all hell but knocked back because he's not confirmed. Aren't we a saintly lot.

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 02:49 PM
Actually you are correct he was a Supplementary 1 stallion BUT still very much accepted as a Pure Bred, in Ireland as that is what he was! If proof is required his Department of Agriculture Passport states as much - it certainly doesn't refer to him as an Irish Sport Horse. It is true that he was failed on his RID due to a conformation fault and that he was to be re-assessed by Ireland on the basis of his exceptional performance - now unfortunately we will never know whether he would have got his RID classification because he died.

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 02:53 PM
You got it in one Rosemary!!! That poor horse - he did so much for the Performance image of the Irish Draught in Australia in 5 short months and still he is burning in the fires of hell for "only being S1"- Bria is the perfect example - she still remembers him over 2 years after he died!

Rosemary
25-03-00, 03:24 PM
So sorry, Jan. I hear your anguish. Nothing can be said. Believe me I doubly understand your sorrow. Belated but meant sincerely.

Rosemary

PS How did I know that??? Uncanny.

Jan Heine
25-03-00, 03:38 PM
Oh Rosemary I am guessing you thought it was referring to Celtic Gold - no he is definitely approved - is in fact in all the literature from Ireland as he is still the only 3 year old to have been considered good enough (at that young age) to be given full stallion approval. Holy Diamond is actually quite famous in Ireland - originally for all the wrong reasons and then for all the right reason - without wanting to get into the Monty Roberts debate yet again - Mr Roberts devotes about 5 pages in his book (The Man Who Listens to Horses) to my beautiful boy - his "home" name was Stanley and it was on his visit to Ireland - worth a read! And there was good reason for his conformation fault - it was not genetic but rather man-made - I'll email you the story on that one - no by the way it happened in Ireland! I am still very touchy about that horse because I was given a very hard time in Australia about him and obviously it continues!! Oh well I have a beautiful yearling colt by him at home and his "home" name is "Monty" for fairly obvious reasons once you have read the bit on Stanley and the way he is built I have no doubt that he will be on the jumping arena and doing it brilliantly just like his dad who will live on through his progeny!

Michelle(nz)
26-03-00, 01:03 AM
Jan, just thought i'd tell you my brother leaves for Ireland in a couple of weeks for 1 year!
Are you green with Envy!? >:)

Rosemary
26-03-00, 01:29 AM
I did read Monty Roberts' book and was impressed by it. I do remember the part about the Irish stallion but to tell the truth can't remember the details - I'll get hold of the book again, though.

What got me was some self-important sheila puts on the World Wide Web that such-and-such a stallion had a "confirmational" defect, and therefore ...blah blah blah....

I presume she is something to do with the Irish Draught Society and therefore surely that's a breach of confidentiality?? And if it had been man-made, then it couldn't have been genetic, as you said, and she should have added that. Just a perfectly bitchy and stupid thing to say.

Looking forward to seeing Monty out and about.

Rosemary
26-03-00, 01:45 AM
And that was BEFORE I read your email!!!!

Jan Heine
26-03-00, 03:50 PM
Hopefully though around this time next year I will be back there for an extended stay - more about that at a later date - whereabouts is your brother basing - is he going "for work" or going on a "working holiday"? It really is "god's own country" - the physical surrounds are beautiful, the people are just sensational and the horses - well what I can I say - I just love them all!

michelle(nz)
27-03-00, 02:24 AM
He's off on a working holiday. He's a spray painter by trade, but also surfs for a living. Are there surf beaches in Ireland????
Any way he is not a fan of the horses so i redeem him useless! :0

Sally
27-03-00, 08:14 AM
...but how the hell do you surf for a living!, and does he think he'll get much done in Ireland???LOL

michelle
27-03-00, 08:33 AM
hehehe Sally! would you believe he tests wetsuits and boards out for Ripcurl??zzz(He lives in Torquay) What a job! As for what he is up to in Ireland? God knows, being here in NZ and him in Oz it's hard to keep up *g*

Jan Heine
27-03-00, 03:24 PM
OK Michelle - your brother has the world's best job (I mean really - testing boards and suits - is that not just too way cool!?) and he is going to Ireland!!! Now I have to tell you they have loevely beaches - if you don't mind narrow strips of quite nice sand on the banks of the wild and woolly Irish Sea! And I have to tell you (remembering that I want to come back as an Eskimo in my next life because I loathe and detest hot weather and love the cold - well the theory is you can put on heaps of clothing to get warm but you can't take off your skin and run 'round in your bones when it is hot!) - that the climate is not exactly what you would call "surfie's type" - the highest ever recorded temperature was 33 and it was many, many years ago and they still talk about the "heat wave" - it lasted one day! The way you tell the difference between seasons in Ireland is by the direction of the rain! Now I sound like I am knocking the place - not a bit but the weather is not the reason you go there! You go there because the countryside is beautiful, the people are sensational and the pub life is spectacular - and of the course the horses are the best! But the weather - nah!