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Indi
30-11-05, 03:10 PM
Someone has asked me can they use my mare to breed a foal. I'm currently not riding her as I am pregnant with my 2nd baby and can't see myself riding much before this time next year (and that is being super, super optimistic) - more likely to be autumn of the year after. The person owns the stallion, my mare would be at her place for a few weeks whilst being "served" (AI), she would then come home and stay at home until nearer her due date and go somewhere to foal down. Once the foal is a few weeks old the mare and foal would come home. Once foal is weaned he/she would go off to the stallion owner and I get my mare back.

After discussing this with non-horsey husband we have a few queries (I have never bred horses before, only cattle, so pardon any ignorant questions).

Firstly, in this situation what is in it for the mare owner? I'm happy to have my mare doing something other than sitting around for the next 18 months or so but hubby thought that I should get something out of it. What is usual?

Secondly, how old are foals usually when weaned? Can the mare be ridden before weaning (obviously with foal within sight)?

What happens if something goes wrong. What recourse do I have if my mare dies foaling etc. What recourse does the stallion owner have if the foal has an accident whilst at our place?

Any help or suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks.

shaiarabs
30-11-05, 03:41 PM
You can usually get the mare returned to you with foal in utero as payment for use.

Breeding isnt always so lucky and stuff can go wrong. If you are concerned about loosing her and replacing her then get her insured first.

Tie EVERYTHING!!! up in the lease who is responsible for what right down to the feet teeth etc. While they are leasing the mare and their foal is on it it is their responsibility.

foal can be weaned from 4 months onwards depending on persons preference.

good luck and if in the slightest doubt listne to your instincts and dont do it

Liesl

"Words that soak into your ears are whispered ..... not yelled!"

JudithNZ
30-11-05, 11:28 PM
Yes ABSOLUTELY get everything in writing.

Usually if someone is using Your mare then they keep the mare for that time paying for all its expenses.
While I would (if in your position) prefer the mare to come home where I can keep it under my eye I would expect the person who wanted the foal to pay ALL expenses including ajistment from the time the mare is returned to you till the time the foal is weaned.

I am leasing a mare this year. She will be served and then will be coming to me once in foal. I will keep her (at entirely my cost) until the foal is weaned and she will be returned in foal again.

I am so thrilled to be given the opportunity to use a nice mare and would certainly not want to short change the owner in any way.

I have been in the position where I have given a stud a mare to use and not got it in writing. Twice I have done it, Once 20 years ago and another time about 3 years ago. I should have learned from the first experience. Went belly up, I ended up with a foal I did not want and lots of expenses. I ended up selling the foal much later but never covered all my expenses so I was the one losing out.

2nd time A similar situation. The stud wanted the mare, got her in foal and then said Sorry we have changed our minds. So sent the mare back and sent me a stud fee (for a foal I never asked for!)
It was a con from Go to whoa! :( Because it was going to be a horrendous battle with nothing in writing I sold the mare in foal but only managed to find a buyer just before she was due to foal. The price I got for her hardly covered what the mare was worth let alone the foal she was carrying and certainly not what it had cost me to keep her for the year.
I really learned my lesson that time. I could blame the first time on being young and stupid. Second time there was no excuse :)

seri
01-12-05, 01:58 AM
I have just done that with my own mare. The breeder of the stallion got the first foal and I get to keep the second. First mare when to stud got in foal than foaled down at my place. The mare foaled early, breeder came got mare and foal , she paid all the bills, but because of foaling early they stayed at her palce until weaning.
Now she is back in foal and I get free service in return for the use of my mare. I still have to pay any vet fees now and I had to pay agistment while my mare was back there to get in foal which was only for a short time.I am hoping nothing goes wrong the next time. The other thing is the breeder lived near by and was on hand if anything went wrong or wanted to be there when she foaled down. I do recomend you have a written contract mine was just verble and I was fine with that.
It is a wonderfull experience. On the up side you get to enjoy your mare foaling but do not have to do the parting of it when is sold. I did not get attached to the first foal as pretty as she was as I new she would not be mine and that was the agreement. Also this was only my second foal so I was not experience in it but if the breeder lives near by and is on hand if needed that does help.
Any way good luck
Seri

LindaH
01-12-05, 05:08 AM
Hi Indi, we have loaned out a few mares for people to breed from. The deal has always been that they keep the mare at their place and cover all associated expences until the foal is weaned. They then return the mare to us in foal. But in our case we wanted to breed and the people borrowing the mare had their own stallion.
In your case maybe consider leasing the mare to them for the duration. As part of the lease agreement make sure they have the mare insured at their expense and lay out who pays for what (vet's bills, worming, trimming, feeds, agistment etc). Get it all sorted out in advance so everyone knows what to expect and no one feels ripped off somewhere down the track!

tanis2perrin
01-12-05, 05:29 AM
i was actually in a similar position to you just recently. i was expecting my second child (now a week old) and had a mare going to waste in the paddock.
i had originally brought the mare just last year, unbroken and had planned on having her broken in to ride.
it turned out she was in foal, so i did basic groundwork with her but otherwise left her for a year to settle. in august she gave me a beautiful filly, but being pregnant i just didn't have a lot of time or energy, and lets face it who really wants to start training a young foal whilst pregnant.
so i did as much of the handling i could manage and when the foal had her 8 week checkup and vaccs, i decided to lease mare to a friend in exchange for her to do all the handling work on the little fellow.
i look after the foal in regards to worming etc, but friend looks after mare for the year and will return her in foal if i wish.
and she is local so i can visit when i want. which is great.

blackhorse
01-12-05, 05:49 AM
I wouldn't do it unless there is something in it for you that you actually want!

Do you want to breed the mare and have a foal yourself, and if so, do you want it by this stallion?

My reasoning for this is because I have done this and it didn;t turn out well. Not ripped off, but I ended up losing the mare and her foal. That can happen anyway when you are breeding, and I would enter such an arrangement again under the sanme circumstances. But if I didn;t want a foal myself or had no interest in the stallion, I wouldn;t want to take the (normal) risk of having a mare foaling just because someone else fancies her bloodlines or somethjing else about her.

I'd rather have her safe and idle in the paddock at home

Nicky2000
01-12-05, 06:09 AM
just another inpet to the above you said that she is going to Ai the mare which is good, but you stated that the mare would then come back to your house untill foaling down, in my opinion she should pay cost of having the mare for that period of time scene she is wanting the end result.The foal. Maybe you could do it and ask for a free service in return.

shaiarabs
01-12-05, 06:48 AM
hmm Just another thought be aware that AI if mare is wanted in foal in return then you would be responsible for the vet fees to AI her the second time to get your foal but the straws should be at their cost

Liesl
"Words that soak into your ears are whispered ..... not yelled!"

catandmouse
01-12-05, 07:13 AM
I don't think you should be responsible for the AI fees for the return foal...the person 'borrowing' the mares body should return the mare in whatever condition the owner wants...with no cost to the owner of the mare. Also...the person 'borrowing' the mare should pay for all cost incurred intil the foal is weaned....42 day scan...feed...vet callout when foal is born....upkeep of mare while foal is on the mare...and weaning costs....transport etc.

shaiarabs
01-12-05, 09:17 AM
hmm maybe catandmouse but they are only responsible for bringing the horse back in the condition it left in unless payment was agreed apon which is usually free lease or stallion service but AI is a different matter again, but that is one for discussion at the round table meeting that you need to have for signing a lease.

Liesl

"Words that soak into your ears are whispered ..... not yelled!"

Indi
01-12-05, 09:21 AM
Thanks everyone for your input. I'm not remotely interested in having a foal for myself - more felt a bit guilty for having her just standing around a paddock doing nothing.

After thinking about all the comments I've decided not to go ahead - too many risks for me with not a lot (if any???) benefit.

After so long not riding (for both of us) what's another 12 - 18 months?! Can I still call her my "young horse" at 11?????

Thanks again.

mandybale
01-12-05, 01:35 PM
I wouldn't worry about her being 'idle' in a paddock, isn't that what horses enjoy doing the most!! My lazy gelding is in his element when he is left to do nothing but get fat!!!!!

JaneS
01-12-05, 03:57 PM
HI indi

I am actually doing this exactly. I have a verbal agreement, where I must pay for everything incl all costs associated with breeding, but I MUST have her insured to an agreed value by te owner. I have done this. Doesn;t cost that much.

I get to keep the mare until the foal is weaned, and from then on the owner takes over from paying. (mare was orogoal agisted at our place anyhow). This mare belongs to a long established client and if anything goes belly up, then the foal cannot be registered with the W/B society as I sinply will not get papers. The service was won at an auction, if this makes sense.

I say go for it, but definately get things in writing (i know I should etc) As long as you ca trust theses people

Emz
02-12-05, 04:18 AM
I wouldn't worry about the mare being idle.
I lean't a mare to someone and ended up with the mare being destroyed due to foaling complications.
Way to big a risk if theres nothing in it for you.

Ritchie
02-12-05, 12:16 PM
I am at the moment leasing a mare from a breeder. I had my own mare put in foal by the breeders stallion, unforunatly I lost both baby and my precious mare in a freak event. When I told the breeder what had happened she offered me a free service and her top brood mare too. What a generous and caring person. Basically I have paid for her preg test and 4 weeks agistment while I was waiting for the preg test and now she is at my place. Obviously I will be paying for feed, teeth, worming and shoeing. Oh yeah and vet bills. I am also having her insured for $3500 just in case!

catandmouse
03-12-05, 12:40 PM
shaiarabs - my post was meant in the context of a "maybe" of what the person leasing the mare would be offering....eg if the person leasing the mare had a stallion, then the obvious thing for them to do would be to offer a free return service after they had a foal on the ground.....which wouldn't apply if the owner didn't want a foal....and if the owner didn't want a foal, then, IMO money must change hands.....simply because in my view, if someone wants your mares body, they must be prepared to pay for it...you would be paying for a recipient mare/s if you were playing around with embryos....and the way I see it, in terms of 'using a body' there is no difference between a mare carrying her own foal, or an embryo...