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jumpa
26-05-07, 03:43 AM
Id be interested to hear how you would apply natural methods with the following horse.

One who is borderline pushy and impatient on the ground. So when i say this, it will try and walk in front of person when leading, will stop when asked however gets impatient and will attempt to 'inch' forward. Also focus is on surrounding rather than on the person leading. This individual is known to have spooky/jumpy moments. I wouldnt call this horse rude 'exactly' as it will stop when you ask, but is also known for being a handful too on a bad day or at an event.

bellestarr
26-05-07, 03:50 AM
Well if it was me training this horse, I would make sure the ground work continued untill I had his attention. So if you ask him to back up and he does but his attention isn't on you, keep backing him until he pays attention. Look for a change in his mind not just his body and reward that.
So if he inches forward, back him up until you see him check in with you, then allow him to stand, everytime he inches forward back him several steps.
Most of all though reward and release for a change in his emotions, mental state and thinking rather than just the physical.
cheers
Bellestarr
http://www.brumbiesrun.com
"To practise equestrian art is to establish a conversation on a higher level with the horse; a dialogue of courtesy and finesse." Nuno Oliveira

jumpa
26-05-07, 03:58 AM
Bellestar, what you have described with the backing up until attention is on leading person is what has been done to date. Unsure whether the reward or release at the end has been sufficent though.

Piny_Pot
26-05-07, 04:00 AM
I believe this is the kind of behaviour the parelli 7 games is designed for - to teach ground manners.

jumpa
26-05-07, 04:07 AM
See the thing is that generally the individual doesnt have terrible manners and will lead nicely 70% of the time. However i am seeking to make this 100%.

Can you go into deal explaining the 7 games to me.

I have never been taught in depth about parelli. I have been taught everything i know from a very well respected horseman and competitor and understand the concepts of pressure and release, backing up, reward. But would be interested in specific things that can do done from the natural perspective to improve this behavior.

See an easy answer is to lead in a bridle as the horse wont put a foot wrong in that, however that wouldn't address the real issues.

bellestarr
26-05-07, 05:37 AM
It musn't have been done consistently enough Jumpa otherise the horse would give you his attention. It has do be done consistently every time he shows this behaviour of ignoring you.
Even if its just slightly. So either you are not backing him far enough or fast enough or not actually getting his attention and respect. Maybe you don't know what to look for? When he gives you respect he will lower his head, his ears turn out to the side and go floppy, some horses lick and chew, other yawn and roll their eyes the first few times. He will blink a lot, maybe sigh and be very willing to follow where you lead. Its sounds like you have only been getting grudging respect.


Bellestarr
http://www.brumbiesrun.com
"To practise equestrian art is to establish a conversation on a higher level with the horse; a dialogue of courtesy and finesse." Nuno Oliveira

Suzie Q
26-05-07, 05:41 AM
I'm just wondering what advice you thought you would hear from a non natural perspective?

jumpa
26-05-07, 05:45 AM
Honestly i dont think there would be much if any difference Suzie Q.

jumpa
26-05-07, 05:48 AM
Quite possibly Bellestar with regard to consistency, as i often bring two up from the paddock at a time.

I do know how to recognise the body language though.

Suzie Q
26-05-07, 05:49 AM
:D That is the best answer you could have given me!!!

jumpa
26-05-07, 05:53 AM
It was just the way the question popped into my head and the way i wrote it at the time is all.

Prancing Pony
27-05-07, 11:59 AM
Well perhaps one 'non-natural' perspective would be the one Funkbunny and I heard from the guy I bought my QH off a few days ago, who says 'hold a piece of poly-pipe in your left hand while leading and if he gets in front of you or isn't paying attention hit him in the chest with it increasingly hard until he does'. We laughed, thought he was joking. Hmmmm.

fernloch_girl
27-05-07, 03:52 PM
Hmmmm, I generally find that 'reprimand then move on' works best. Sorry to all you Parelli fans out there :( My favourite tools are a stallion check chain, a Germain in-hand whip (the really long, flexy ones) and heaps of carrots. When horse does what you want - reward, pat, bit of carrot. If overbearing - check chain. If running backwards, whip. But don't go on - one swift reprimand, then stroke the neck and keep going as though nothing has happened. THAT'S the part that tests your character :)

Sparrow
28-05-07, 04:37 AM
"Sorry to all you Parelli fans out there My favourite tools are a stallion check chain ...."

What is it with you GALS & CHAINS ??? .... can't you just leave all your little bondage fantasies in the bedroom ???

I have NEVER come accross ANYONE whom I have respect for as a horseperson .... that uses "Chains" to control a horse .... or carrots for bribery ???

If you can't control your horse just in a rope halter & need "Chain" .... and you use carrots to bribe them into doing something .... then I think you SERIOUSLY need some professional help to sort out what you are doing WRONG with your horse ???

fernloch_girl
28-05-07, 07:24 AM
Hmmm, maybe something to do with the fact that my 52kg is no match for my stallion's 800 odd kg... And if you think that ALL GALS HAVE CHAINS, then maybe you need the help ;) And I don't bribe my horses with carrots, I use them AFTER they've done well for a reward. Or don't you reward your horses... poor neddies :(

By the way, I don't use a rope halter because I think they're unsafe and uncomfortable - especially if the horse gets frightened and pulls back. Mine all have padded leather, thank you very much!!! Chain is only ever put on for a few minutes whilst I'm dealing with a specific issue and then 'normal lead rope' goes back on. I'm happy with the way I do things and none of my horses have ever caused an injury to anyone and are all well socialised and people friendly... which is more than I can say for many others I've seen.

Anarabis
28-05-07, 09:34 AM
if your horse is happy and respectful ... a pleasure to work with and safe then you are doing it the right way.... if your horse is frightened, sour, unsafe and a menace to society then you need help... it is not the wrong way until it doesnt get good results...
personally i thing parelli is lower than watching paint dry on a wall but i love ken faulkner so go figure that out... no insult intended to parelli ppl ... maybe im missing stuff