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imnotsaying
08-07-07, 12:32 PM
I went to our local equestrian group members day a couple of weeks ago for a dressage competition and took our young horses for a pick and look around. I was amazed and confused about how poorly the progress has been in this club toward rider satisfaction and more importantly the welfare of the horse. I have been associated with the club for near on ten years now, and you would think that with time we should improve so much more than we have.
I saw horses who were ridden by riders who have regular lessons with qualified instructors. Some started as quiet, kind horses and are now "fruitloops". Others were bought as Medium/Advanced and doing distressed Prelim tests.
The question I asked myself was why do theses people do this to themselves?
Am I in the wrong club, or are they all like this?

kevarose
08-07-07, 12:54 PM
Terrifying prospect for a beginner like me (with 3.5 years experience of owning ponies and 18 months of lessons but not all with me on the back) who has just bought a horse to ride and is trying to do it as well as possible for me and my loved horse.

What can I do to ensure she does not become a "fruitloop"? I do not owe her this.

mish1234
08-07-07, 01:13 PM
i personally think that one (of many) reasons the horse becomes a fruitloop is because so much pressure put on them + SOME show riders do not know how to have fun with their horses. Thats my opinion anyway.

imnotsaying
08-07-07, 02:00 PM
Gidday kevarose. If I was starting all over again with the "chrystal ball" known as hindsight, these would be the things that I would hold dear.
The first thing that I would do is to try to more quickly gain the "instinct" required to become a better horseperson.
You must become consistent with your horse and your horse must trust and respect you. I do not know what all the horse experts say, but to me the greatest challenge is to learn their "language". I would look for a quiet, calm and modest horseperson to teach me and my horse manners on the ground so that I could understand the method that I would use to communicate with the horse.
This would be the basis that I would carry forward when the horse was under saddle and because that I know what I enjoy most about horses, then that is what I would stick to. I hate riding them, but I love learning about them and looking after them. I love watching champion riders compete at dressage. Champions however are few and far between.
If I was to ride and compete then for me it would need to be purely for pleasure.
That is not to say however that you cannot be a future olympian, kevarose. But for this to happen then I believe you must focus on both yourself and your horses basic skills and you should not rush what time takes to learn.
p.s. a star rating for my rant would be much appreciated.

spana22
08-07-07, 02:41 PM
I believe that when people let their egos come before their horse then things will go down hill. There is so much pressure in the competition world to have horses looking a certain way and moving a certain way that many people lose sight of the horse. I read in a recent post that people actually put their horses under lights at night to trick the horse into thinking it is still summer so the coat will stay nice (I think that's what is was anyway) How can horses truly be happy when things like this are happening? I can't see how make-up, false tails, trimming whiskers and feathers can improve a horses comformation, its movement or the riders ability.

I think the "sad riders with unhappy horses" are the ones who (as you said) have forgotten how to have fun. They are pushing themselves and their horses and not really listening to the horse or taking the time to really understand the horse (how it thinks, how it reacts, what it REALLY needs ect)

If people could just let go of their egos the whole world would be a better place. My horses at the moment are all shaggy and hairy but I don't care what other people think. My horses are happy and healthy and they get to run around and roll around and be a horse. I looked out the window the other morning and my 2 1/2 year old filly was belting around the paddock. kicking her heels up and just having fun. Watching her do that gave me more pleasure than any competition could.

diamond
08-07-07, 02:57 PM
I am absolutely with you Spana22, I have seen so many people who take it far to serious, riders yanking ponies mouths and kicking them and whipping them all at once,pony is like WTF.And worse still parents of young riders pressuring their kids to the point of tears and tantrums. I ride my horse at a loose rein 90% of the time and my horse is happy and relaxed, he trusts me and I trust him,we have FUN ,what more could you want?

opensky
08-07-07, 04:28 PM
Agree, agree, so agree with previous posts! Rider egos (and they start so young, unfortunately, via parental pressure, for some) completely over-rule the whole idea of riding and achieving rapport with the horse/pony. Sad, but true! Ribbons are nothing compared to a real love and respect for horses AS horses, and the great things that can be achieved when such a relationship is gradually achieved. Too competitive too early? Too much expectation, instant success wanted, and often not enough hours on horseback to build the realtionship?

i_love_royal
08-07-07, 05:48 PM
Also agree with former posts.
There's definitly alot of parental pressure out there in the pony club scene and so the kids forget how to have while riding. My best friend is a fantastic rider but has quit due to her err... sometimes psycho mother. My friend is adament that she hates riding now, I can't even convince her to go on a lazy trail ride with me - and we used to have so much fun racing along the coffee bush rows!

After 8 years of only really riding in arenas on horses that weren't mine, I got pretty sick of it aswell. So I left my riding school and leased a friends horse, tried a bit of pony club - way too many pushy instructers. Now I don't ride much, but I still love it, just not the "collected, on the bit, go round in circles till your dizzy" stuff.

But miniatures are my love. I know my little horse better than I will ever know the back of my hand. We used to compete in national shows, but they always involved long hours in the round yard with a lunge line which wasn't fun for either of us, the shows weren't ever much fun either. Now my horse is fat and sassy, our form of exercise is chasing each other around the arena and jumping for the fun of it, there's never a halter or lead in sight.

Ah people just need to stress less and let their reins get looser, or race their horse on foot (although I tried that once with a stock horse and it's a little bit more worrying than with a miniature). Haha or maybe if they had horse treats instead of ribbons as prizes for shows horses would be more happy. I mean, ribbons make nice decor and all but they're not exactly useful...

annieat4444
08-07-07, 11:19 PM
I think that the riders buy/obtain a horse that is well trained but just too good for them.

We have the most lovely WB filly (well almost Mare) and while I really love watching my daughter and hubby ride her I know that even since I have been riding for almost 40 years I am not ready to venture up on her. She is beautifully trained and educated but just has too much "power" for me and Im not confident enough.

kevarose
09-07-07, 12:38 AM
>Gidday kevarose. I do not know what all the horse
>experts say, but to me the greatest challenge is to learn
>their "language". I would look for a quiet, calm and modest
>horseperson to teach me and my horse manners on the ground
>so that I could understand the method that I would use to
>communicate with the horse.

Thanks for the response Imnotsaying. As I am learning to ride at 63, I am not sure if I can dream of Olympian status :-) LOL LOL I also had a fearful accident mounting a "quiet" (and arthritic and ancient) 16 hh mare a year ago with a girth too loose (never again will I trust an expert who tells me it is fine) who reared up as I mounted with my left ankle in the stirrup (and badly broke it) and then she collapsed entirely on top of me and caused a lot of damage. Moving on now. I went to Monty Roberts in April, have read every horse book I can lay my hands on (now looking for A McLean) and bought a horse that I fell in love with who is a bit forward moving so I have not yet got on her back. I have had her for 6 weeks and she and I are simply falling in love with each other on the ground. We go for a walk every day, now down to the little village. She listens to me and no longer shies at a branch flapping or silly things. I know she might still so I am sending her to Steve Ratty in Milton for 3 weeks in a fortnight's time when she is booked in and he is going to do more gentling with her including riding her in a lot of situations. Then I will get on her and I have a great instructor. She does seem to trust me and will calm if I say "steady". I think she's the best thing since sliced bread. She is very jealous and does not like me spending any time with my other little Welshie mare but I understand that and so am just doing little bits each day. The adventure in finding out about horses before it was too late is great but I have dreams of learning to train and guide her and it seems that dressage is what training is about. But only with her willing contribution and the gentlest of bits/bridle. Yes I might enter her into events - already training her with her new leather halter for the led classes for the shows early next year - but it is for the joy of doing this with her and the pride I feel in her. I DO have such fun with her! Sorry for the essay. The last thing I want to do is turn her into a frootloop. Learning to be bossy and firm and guide her behaviour the way I want it - I know she loves the fact I feed her and care for her but I do love her. In this photo I know with her ears like that she is thinking, "they might give me a treat" (photo taken by some guests of mine).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/kevarose/IMG_0818-1.jpg

>p.s. a star rating for my rant would be much appreciated. WHAT'S THIS AND HOW DOES ONE SO IT?

andrea2000au
09-07-07, 12:52 AM
I wonder if the horse and rider have had a winter spell? It amazes me how few people turn there horses out for an annual holiday.
Its good for their mind body and soul and ours

jimmy
09-07-07, 01:51 AM
After many years of attending riding schools and holiday camps, i realised that my single mother was never going to buy me a horse, so at the age of thirteen years i worked every day after school and on school holidays to buy and keep my own horse.
My first horse was brought entirely on the amount of money i had saved, there was no consideration of the horses temperament e.c.t. My friend, who already owned a horse was keeping an eye out at the local agistment centre for a affordable horse, one day she rang me to tell me of one that she knew of that was only $350.00, i was so excited and rushed out to pay the agistment owner this sum.

Well this horse luckily turned out to be the best horse to this day that i had ever owned, my friends and i would ride out on trails together, we would fang around and pretend we were characters from the movie Young guns, then after lunch we would give each other work outs and riding lessons, it was fun and carefree, i didn't even miss giving up all of my school holidays to work to pay for my horse because i just loved it. Sadly, this horse developed navicular and had to be retired.

Now that i was in the market for a new horse, the agistment owner, my riding instructor and finally my mother, all decided to begin to encourage my horse riding hobby by guiding me into focusing on dressage, my brother who was overseas working at the time put up a fairly large sum of money for me to buy my first competitive horse. The horse that we brought was a beauty, she was the talk of the town, she was green broke but had a kind temperament, and at first we developed a strong and happy partnership. I had lessons after lessons, every ones eyes were watching, i know longer hung out with my friends at the agistment, i went to school and then work, and then to work my horse, getting home after 9pm everyday.
Soon my young horse began to sour after one to many schooling sessions, and i not only began to loose my confidence but my ambition too, it was no longer fun so i sold the horse and gave up riding for many years.

Now that i am back into horses again i can see it happening so clearly to other young riders, they are not aloud to go out riding on a trail there parents must supervise at any time they are riding and here's my personal favourite the parents that groom and saddle up the horses for there children. There is just no fun, it seems that for many it becomes about who owns the best horse and who's child is the most talented.

When you start to become competitive and take things to seriously you more often than not take the fun out of it for both the horse and rider and from personal experience when the fun is gone it really begins to feel like there is no point in doing it at all.


http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k24/kazzyhotpanys/jimmy031.jpg

Zampari
09-07-07, 02:39 AM
I show my horse successfully but I'm a big advocate of having fun with him too. Yes I pamper my horse, he has his whiskers clipped and his tail shaved with false tail etc, etc and I feel it does him no harm. He's certainly no spastic to handle, he stands quietly while being clipped( I can sit underneath him to do his belly), self loads onto a float, no kick, bite, buck, bolt or rear, loves having his skinny hood put on(he actually pushes his head into it) and stands quietly while I drag it over his ears and eyes and when he gets to a show he behaves nicely, falls asleep in his halter classes and trots out into the ring with an air about him that says 'look at me aren't I beautiful'. I've never had to sedate him to do anything with him. I don't think any of this hurts him at all. And yes he even comes galloping up to me when I call him from across his ten acre paddock.

What I do do with him is take him out on the roads as much as possible. I don't do hours of endless schooling only but try to keep him as fresh as I can. I'm very lucky in that I have a lot of quiet trail riding areas I can take him to and my neighbours are great and I can ride all through their places as long as I shut all gates I open and disturb their cattle too much. He loves galloping up hills as much as he enjoys a quiet plod on a lazy sunday arvo. I think variety is the key. He is also a keen jumper(without much idea) and I pop him over little logs etc when I can. He has a ball. There is nothing wrong with schooling and and showing and all those other things we enjoy doing as riders as long as we break it up a bit.

My boy is also in a paddock 24/7 so he gets plenty of time to just be a horse.

opensky
09-07-07, 02:59 AM
Agree with Jimmy - you can just so see it happening, the pressure and the lack of the fun element. The parents who do the saddling up should have a little think about what their children are really gaining out of this. Fair enough if they are small children, but plenty of older ones stand by and then do the Roy Higgins of just hopping on, and haven't we all seen the dramas of things going wrong and loud, embarrassing arguments in public, (such a no-noal! Sometimes those same children sit back and let the parents do all the untacking, rugging etc. as well! And Kevarose, I think you are awesome learning to ride at 63, especially after that traumatic broken ankle and the horse falling on you! You have been bitten by the horse bug, definitely. There is no cure for the truly besotted!! My idol is an 84 year old who still competes in elementary dressage. Certainly she has been blessed with good health, but is the nicest, most positive and friendly person who just shows amazing persistence. So, take heart and happy horsing!

Sparrow
09-07-07, 03:04 AM
"Some started as quiet, kind horses and are now "fruitloops" .... The question I asked myself was why do theses people do this to themselves?"

SHOCK ... HORROR ... Dismay !!! Does this REALLY happen out in the 'Real World" ???

Well obviously it does ... but doesn't get spoken about too often as these prople are on their way to be the next Ulla or Anky or whomever their idol happens to be ???

Why does it happen ???

Because some people are so focused on their 'dream' & their ego's wouldn't ALLOW them to use common sense & reason .... and they completely FAIL to listen to a single thing their horse is telling them ???

You can't 'train' horses round & round incessantly without the horse percieving that YOU just mean boredom, work & quite often .... PAIN !!!

People that I come across the ARE successful in their chosen equine pursuit .... all have the same characteristics ... they LISTEN to their horses !!! Their horses and them ... actually DO have a proper partnership because of the mutual respect they have built ... based on trust .... which is the complete opposite to the 'wanna-be's' that end up with fruitloop horses ???

How many times do you see people get new horses that ARE 'well trained' .... only to end up having all sorts of behavioural problems .... then end up selling 'problem horse' .... and repeat the cycle over again ... and again ... and again ???

What I have learnt ... is that YOU can't help these people ... because they live in denial ... and DON'T have any problems ... it's all that 'stoopid' horses fault ???

Walk away, change clubs, change DISCIPLINES if necessay ... whatever YOU need to do to distance yourselves from these types of people ... let em work it out for themselves ... and if they can't ... well whom can you blame ???

Reneem1377
09-07-07, 04:28 AM
I think the answer is the same for the "on the bit" thread...why do people torture their horses and themselves??? Vanity.

They want to look good rather than having a rewarding partnership with their horse. I blame Pony Clubs to a large degree for telling people they're not riding "properly" unless their horse is "on the bit", they have an english saddle, their elbows are tucked in, their hands never move, they need a martingale if the head is high, they need spurs if the horse is slow etc etc etc...i could go on all day.

What people (especially novices) need to focus on is building a rewarding, trusting and respectful relationship with their horse rather than being concerned with how they look. It should be about having fun, not winning ribbons.

ellie_may82
09-07-07, 04:28 AM
Ha! Maybe I should call what I'm doing a 'winter spell'. I just can't make myself get on at the moment. I was given a new horse after losing one to colic, but after 2 months it still just doesn't feel 'right'.

Queen_V
09-07-07, 08:44 AM
No, thankfully, we're not all sad riders with unhappy horses. Our family really do enjoy showing, but I honestly think we are in the minority.
But yes,it is sad and frustrating to observe....Overshown horses and ignorant irresponsible people :( :( ........ .....owners who fail to realize that horses aren't machines and push them to the limit, never giving them time off for a break, showing their horses week after week, and 'training' or 'trying to train them' every single day of the week (not knowing what they're really doing training-wise or why it's being done), and their instructors or trainers who won't or can't for some reason advise the owner of the consequences of all this repetitive and boring activity. All this contributes to souring a good horse - they get so *issed off with all the training and showing, they just end up 'losing the plot'. And then their owners wonder why the horse turns into a nut case. :(

Some owners become so obsessed with competition and trying to be the best, it is no longer an enjoyment. They want to win at any cost and unfortunately lose all perspective. Thankfully it is not that way for us. Yes, it is nice to win and be acknowledged for a job well done, but winning to us is not a bue ribbon or a trophy, it's achieving the goals you set for yourself - whether it be in the training area at home, or in the arena and in front of a judge and spectators. It could be something as simple as a smooth transition, getting your horse in frame, learning to square up properly for a Halter event. And the big test - getting your horse out to be shown in company and it still listening and responding to your cues with the many distractions there always are in a show ring situation. It is the satisfaction of achieving that special partnership you have with your horse, the give and take, the mutual respect and trust. When you have spent that time together in training for a certain manouevre or task, and at the end of the day, your horse understands and WILLINGLY performs what you ask, that really is what 'winning' is all about.

We have shown horses in western performance for nearly 30 years, owned horses for fifty, been involved with many disciplines and have learned a lot about horses, their limitations, their capabilities and how they react to certain 'lifestyles' and handling. Showing can be a very rewarding experience and enjoyed immensely, provided care and well being of the horse (physically and mentally) is always the first priority. We love our horses and just because they are 'show horses', doesn't mean we haven't got the same bond as an owner does with his
or her horse just pleasure riding or doing something which is
non-competitive. Having a competition horse and training with it gives a person an amazing partnership (provided it is all done correctly and with respect). There has to be a balance. When it ceases to be fun and rewarding, it's time to give it a miss.

And yes, we DO stable under lights. In order to have our horses looking their best for the standard of showing we do, it IS a necessity. I feel no justification is needed - we choose to show horses at national level so that comes with extra care and commitment to our horses, measures we have to undertake that some ppl see as extreme, vain, unnecessary and 'cruel'. ?????
Our horses live a pretty cushy lifestyle - they are loved and cared for and 'allowed to be horses' for 99% of their existence. The other 1% they are trained and shown - made-up, manes braided, hooves blackened, and false tails if necessary - a small price for them to pay for being fed well and cared for all their lives, pampered and loved.
I think there is a lot of misconception about this 'stabling under lights thing'. It seems to come up every now and then in certain posts by people who are totally against it and really don't understand the concept. So allow me to explain once again.

In order to keep our horses' coats short as they would be in the summer months, we must 'mimick' summer time so horses' coats won't grow long. Having a show horse looking shaggy is undesirable not only for cosmetic reasons, it's very difficult to dry horses off in the
late afternoons after working them. You can't risk horses catching chills. Not everyone can work their horses in the middle of the day - some ppl do have to go to work.
And let me say, you wouldn't take your horse to a national show looking like a yak. The same as you, yourself wouldn't go to your best friends wedding wearing your slippers and dressing gown with hairy legs. Keeping the horses' coats short does not in any way cause
them any pain or discomfort provided they are rugged appropriately, and rugs and horses are kept cleaned.

It is a TOTAL MISCONCEPTION that horses that are stabled under lights are left 'baking' and sweating all night under bright lights like eggs in an incubator, wrapped up in doona rugs so their coats wont grow and not getting any shut-eye. I'm sure some ppl think this actually happens. This is how it works.....

The horses are brought in to their stables before dark with lights on (some ppl use a fluro, but ours are only a normal globe which we have found works just as well). The light only stays on for 3-4 hours (timer controlled) and then come on again in the moring for a while
before the horses are let out into their paddocks for the day. This just gives the extra amount of 'daylight' to keep the summer coat. So in actual fact, the horses are still spending 8 HOURS in darkness. The stables are very roomy with thick bedding, automatic waterers, plenty of feed, cosy and safe (from packs of stray dogs that roam our streets at night). What horse wouldn't be happy with that.

Here is a pic of our happy, relaxed show horse after competing and winning an event at a prestigious show recently. Winning was great, but just being a part of it was the most important thing. (Doesn't the show team look happy and relaxed?) This is how it should be. :) :)

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k276/scotch82/ScotchHSE1.jpg
My daughter, Danni and our QH 'Scotch' Champ. Hunt Seat Equitation (NPHA 2007) Photo By Mel

annieat4444
09-07-07, 09:48 AM
What a super photo Queen V, what did the photographer have you say, guessing its not "COON" by the shape of your lips, looking a little sheepish so I think it was S*E*X

Queen_V
09-07-07, 09:58 AM
Hehehe, Annie. Actually, I'm not in that photo (they left me at home looking after the other pets }> )

They certainly all look like they've 'scored' well don't they! :D

Cheers
Vicki

Bats_79
09-07-07, 11:33 AM
I'll be instructing dressage and jumping (I think I'll be doing the jumping as well) at a fairly local Adult Riding Club next month. I've instructed there on and off over the last 4 years. I know that a couple of riders prefer not to have a lesson with me because I ask too much of them but others just love it when I come. I don't have any problem with the people who don't want a lesson because it is, after all, an adult RIDING club not a competition dressage club - each to their own.

But I'm pretty sure there aren't too many sad riders on sour, unhappy horses at this club. At least none in my lessons.

Also - I've been a competitive rider since I was 8. I trained horses for other kids, I prepared horses for, and rode them through the sale yards and broke in horses to sell (never for other people). I lost my confidence about mounting untrained horses when I had my leg badly smashed by a naughty pony but, 30 years later, I still cope with it. The same year my wonderful stallion was born and I went on to train him to International level Grand Prix, he never had more time off than it took to recover from injury/illness (only a couple of times in 10 years) and I've rarely had a holiday from horses. Neither of us ever got sour or burnt out.

The purpose of the post being that for some people a certain type of pressure is fine and for some horses regular work is also fine.

As with all things generalisations usually misrepresent many people. :)

Edited to say - good post Queen V. I agree with you entirely.

imnotsaying
09-07-07, 02:08 PM
I read the Nicole Tough story on the virtual equestrian. It provided some answers to me. How good would it be to cheer for an Aussie born and bred Olympic Gold Medallist? Someone who could make up their own mind what was best for both them and the horse to achieve this. As Wayne Bennett might say ( he's been with a successful Broncos Team for near on 20 years now ) move on you old stagers, there is a new breed of talent coming through. When you were young, I sold on my older players to make room for you. Now its time for you to make room for them.
Go the Aussies!

CM
10-07-07, 01:08 AM
Change clubs - go eventing! Many clubs now have newcomers classes where you can do a 1.1 dressage test and a really nice and easy cross country course and showjump round. Horse welfare is paramount, the people are friendly and welcoming (especiallly the elite pro riders), everyone talks to everyone and cheers (or comiserates).

DressageDreamer
10-07-07, 01:28 AM
I compete ... I only train on a dressage arena (they might get a walk in the paddocks every couple of months) ... and my horses are not just ridden around on a long rein and nor do they get winter holidays!!

Why?

Coz I want to WIN :+

Yup ... I admit it ... I want to do well, I want to learn to ride well, I want to get a horse muscled up and able to do those high level dressage thingies, I want that partnership with my horse where we both have fun ... I want it LOTS!!

My horses all come when called, all put their noses into the halter to be caught, and happily spend hours going around in "dizzy circles".

To the person suggesting a winter holiday is necessary for horse's happiness ... so dropping a horse out of work in winter then expecting it to be fit and ready for high level competition is a good thing? Fair enough if you're just walking around the trails ... but to me ... putting them out in winter is WORSE than a summer holiday! At a time where they need muscle etc to maintain weight and sliding around in muddy paddocks because they are bored doesn't work for my understanding of horse happiness (and a holiday for my horses = 2 weeks (at the most 3!) anything more and they lose muscle - making it harder work for them to return to training).

Loose rein does not = nice to the horse either in my mind. A horse going around on the forehand, putting more weight through its front legs, crooked etc can do damage just as much as jamming a horse up and having too short a rein.

Of course there are people out competing who sacrifice the horse for their dreams ... but there are a lot of us out there doing it because we enjoy it, the horses enjoy it and we're doing our best to learn how to do it better to make our horses happier.

Bats_79
10-07-07, 01:33 AM
Got to disagree with you imnotsaying. Not about the wonderful article that Nicole Tough wrote but in saying "get out of the way for the young riders coming through".

Youth and "got get it" attitude doesn't make you a champion in the dressage field. Dedication, persistance, willingness to do the miles and the time, subtlty, patience, talent, the ability to listen to everyone (specially the oldies) and pick out what's right for you plus GREAT horses make you a champion at dressage. And you can start when you're well into your adult years (if you have the talent).

Sparrow
10-07-07, 02:02 AM
"Loose rein does not = nice to the horse either in my mind"

Glad I'm NOT a horse at your place !!!

I think your username says it all .... "Dressage Dreamer" ??? :+ :+ :+

DressageDreamer
10-07-07, 02:47 AM
"Loose rein does not = nice to the horse either in my
>mind"[/i][/b]
>
>Glad I'm NOT a horse at your place !!!

I'm glad you're not either! :+

>I think your username says it all .... "Dressage Dreamer"
>??? :+ :+ :+

and I may be a dreamer, but I'm not the only one :D

Sparrow
10-07-07, 03:27 AM
"and I may be a dreamer, but I'm not the only one"

And THAT ... is the really SAD part ??? :-( :-( :-(


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMEMNUvVaU

For all the "Dreamers"

Piny_Pot
10-07-07, 03:41 AM
I dont see the problem with having dreams as long as you dont sacrifice yours and your horses happiness to achieve them. After all what is the point is getting there if you arent going to have fun along the way?

jumpa
10-07-07, 04:02 AM
I think the sad part is people who discourage others to dream based on their own prejudices.

I am not a dressage rider, i do not really enjoy competing it, however i love training it to benifit my jumping. I can see its value when done correctly. Perhaps Sparrow you have never seen it done correctly? Don't stereotype dressage as a bad thing. Dressage means training essentially so that means that you do dressage too.

With this thread - i cant see an issue with people going getting an experienced horse and taking it to a lower level if need be. This shows that the person knows when they need to go back to the basics. IMHO a wise move that should not be critiqued.

Also just a note, if the horse is ridden round/on the bit/collected properly (through proper schooling processes), there is nothing wrong with training like that for the majority of the time. If a horse is unhappy being round then dare i say it is falsely collected through the hand and not through using its hindquaters properly.

foxni483
10-07-07, 06:06 AM
spana22 you are correct there are people who put their horses under lights when they days get shorter so the horses think it is still summer, rather then clip them, as a short summer coat looks nicer. Someone commented in another post about clipping about how and why they do it --> for showing. I would assume these are the same people who would spend $2000 on a turnout outfit and use it once --> WHY??? it is the people with more money than sense/care about the horses.

foxni483
10-07-07, 06:09 AM
lol I agree with annie
People buy themselves awesome horses, not just showing/dressage but also show jumping and they are not good enough riders for the horses.

foxni483
10-07-07, 06:12 AM
my horse doesn't get a specified winter spell, i find it much better for mine and my horses sanity to try and get a ride in, even if it is only once or twice a week over winter, especially with our older Tb (17) it is to hard to bring an older horse back into work it is much better for him to keep him ticking over out hacking, doing a few jumps or some flatwork, plus he gets dangerous (read 500kg horse wanting to play) if he does not get out enough!
Anyway bad weather means that our horses sometimes get a week to 2 weeks off! So i do it that way, rather than saying they will have a month off and get really nice weather :P and then have to get them fit again in yuk cold weather!

Suzie Q
10-07-07, 06:20 AM
It will all come down to the instructors at the club. If dressage is done correctly, the horses are happy and get better and better each year.

If they are not being taught dressage correctly. They do not get better and better and get sold as stupid horses, where another horse is bought and the same thing happens. The same thing happens as the horses don't need to learn. They already have everything they need. It is the riders that need to learn and this is the one thing that they can not pick up naturally. They need to be taught and they need to be taught by a fantastic instructor.

So watch the horses in the club. If the majority of them are happy, it is worth staying. If the majority of them are unhappy, do not blame the horses. It is not 100% the fault of the riders. Most of the blame is on the instuctor/s. There is no such thing as a bad student.

Dont tell me how fantastic the instructors are. It is not me you need to convince, it is the horses.

foxni483
10-07-07, 06:24 AM
def agree with you dressage dreamer about the winter spelling.
But I don't know if I would do all my riding in a 40x20 arena! Dressage can be done anywhere, even out hacking, on the hills, beach etc!
And there is nothing wrong with a longer rein if you are warming up, teaching the horse to stretch, out hacking etc.
Horses can get bored with no variation in their ridden routine, but I'm sure you have your resons for not riding anywhere else, the roads are getting more and more dangerous (and drivers getting more ignorant/trying to scare your horse) , and riding on them is normally neccessary to get anywhere else to ride.
But if your horse is happy who cares.

I think 2 weeks is the longest to turn a horse out 4, people who do for 6 weeks are stupid as it then takes 6-8 weeks to bring them back in to fitness let alone build muscle up. I also hate it how people bring their horses in only 3 weeks before a 3de after 6weeks plus off and then at the end of the season rip their shoes off and dump them in the paddock as soon as the last event is done. HELLO horses also need roughed off for the same amount of time as bringing them in!!!!

foxni483
10-07-07, 06:26 AM
the idea is to clip them so they are easier to dry off. Why would you want to show in the middle of winter when it is cold anyways?

Tbug1
10-07-07, 06:30 AM
This is a very interesting topic and I think about this often when I think about all the things I've learnt over the years, and what I would do differently with my horses if I could do it all over again.

I think over time, people get so wrapped up in other 'stuff' that they forget why they're involved with horses at all. Ego has a lot to do with IMHO. But whatever it is, we often forget that the reason we're involved with horses is because we love them. We love them for the beautiful, noble, brave, trustworthy animals that they are, and for so many other reasons.

We know all that and yet we do terrible, terrible things to them. They put their hearts on the line for us, put their trust in us, they try and tell us when something is wrong and tolerate us when we ignore them time after time after time. We strap them down and kick them up and compromise all of the faith they put in us. Sometimes there's nothing in it for the horse at all, but they have no choice. They're just a slave, but we're apparently happy with that and keep doing what we're doing. After all, as long as we're enjoying ourselves, what does it matter?

Sometimes reading through the posts displayed in some of these forums, I ask myself why on earth many people even have horses any more. If you remind yourself of the core reason why you're involved with horses, why you love them, then you read through some of these posts (for example, pull up any of the posts seeking help with biting horses), I swear I have no idea why horses would want to have anything to do with us.

Anyway, my point to the original poster is go with your heart. Listen to your conscience. If you are seeing these things, move away and look elsewhere for like-minded people who put their horses FIRST. The rest of it is just stupid human stuff.

I do my absolute best, and I'm not saying I don't fail from time to time, but I do my best to treat my horses with the utmost respect and awe for the animal they are and for the things they do for me when at the end of the day, they are doing it against their will. God help anyone who tries to hurt them, and I won't sacrifice my relationship with them for the sake of impressing anyone or achieving something that is unreasonable.

DressageDreamer
10-07-07, 06:50 AM
Probably should clarify what I meant by saying "Loose rein does not = nice to the horse either in my mind" ... made sense to me :+ ... but I can see how others might interpret it. Maybe if I rephrased it to:

loose rein does not ALWAYS = nice to horse!

(does that make more sense?!)

My horses are definitely ridden on a long/loose rein (warm up, cool down, stretchy circles during the work - in walk/trot/canter) ... but I don't think it is as easy as saying "I have a loose rein, therefore I am doing the nicest thing for my horse" at all times.

I see so many people fluffing around on loose reins - then pulling a horse in the gob to give an aid, that they think is "nice" rather than learning about what contact is. Or loose reins that go up and down as the rider rises to the trot, or pulls against their mouth in canter - giving a lurvely jab each time ... but the rider looks down to see a loop in the reins so thinks they are a nice kind rider and sneers at others who have a contact on their horses' mouth.

Very few things in horses are black and white!

foxni483
10-07-07, 06:56 AM
yeah contact is good!
Loose reins mean you prob will jab them in the mouth trying to do anything!

Aida
10-07-07, 12:52 PM
Um....Dressage Dreamer - I don't think Sparra has read the SECOND chapter regarding loose reins = being nice to the horse.
At least I think he means loose reins = reward.
But that's just the basics - which I'm not knocking in any way Sparra, it's just that D-D did not mean it in the simple = solid basics way that you did.
Sheesh.
I think the man needs a goddam interpreter.
Ah - Mrs Sparra where are you and where have you been??
Or doesn't the chain on the kitchen tap reach into the computer room Sparra? LLOLOLOL..........

To the original poster (notwithstanding the FANTASTIC stories shared by all other posters!) I think that many people in ARC's go through cycles with their horses.

One good thing that most clubs do is get a variety of regular and effective instruction.

Another good thing about ARC's is that most people who go are just super-dedicated to their horses - but maybe need a little specialised instruction as they have varying histories/stories and probably lost some if not all confidence along the way.

Confidence is the key to why older riders will hold back and "play safe" - for some people all it takes to loose confidence is to pump out a couple of kids in a 5 year break from riding!

Sometimes all it takes (using the benefit of hindsight ;) ) is for the right trainer to say something that makes it all "click"

I think ARC's are fantastic.
Maybe yours is just going through a "blah" phase?
Maybe it needs another instructor to add to the pot?
Maybe - and this is my secret - the club needs an all day beach ride!

Miss Magnum
10-07-07, 01:02 PM
OK Aida, count me in on an all day beach ride!! Just say when, where, who.....

Aida
10-07-07, 01:24 PM
They are good for all souls concerned!

Including the humans lolol.........

Sparrow
11-07-07, 03:33 AM
Don't think I'm all that different in that I form 'opinions' based on personal experience ???

Plenty of dressage wannabe's that I get to see .. shouldn't be allowed anywhere NEAR horses let alone actaully OWN one ???

For every person that does dressage correctly & actually has a proper relationship with said horses ... how many are there out there in horsey land ... that have horses which are beyond them and they just torture their poor horse ... just to achieve thier idea of 'the Dream' ???

Does LRT and her 'draw rein' fixation ring any bells ???

Believe it or not .... people whom DO any equine pursuit correctly & have a passion to get their horses to be 'partners' not just slaves .... get my respect !!! I had the pleasure a few years ago of visiting the home of one of the best dressage riders this stat has EVER seen ... and watched in abject HORROR as the hubby .... ex German Olympic team coach was giving 'lesson' to paying customer !!!

Well THAT was an eye opener into the 'secret' workings of the upper end training regime of the elite dressage super star coaches ??? This woman way paying like $150 / hr to have this arrogant German PIG scream at her for a whole hour ??? If THAT is what it takes to 'succeed' in that particular discipline .... then it AIN'T for me.

Must be I'm:
a) Not a woman ... so would let ANYONE I'm paying for tuition speak to me in a manner such as that ....
b) Not 'desperate' enough to win at all costs to allow some overinflated egotistical PIG to treat me like some stupid insignificant little child ....

Dressage is a wonderful thing ... take away all the pompous FARKWITS from the sport ... and it WOULD be a worthwhile pursuit ???

DressageDreamer
11-07-07, 04:11 AM
The hardest part is that there really is no way of stopping cruelty happening (across dressage and all other horse activities).

Years ago there was a companion animals bill suggested for Victoria which would include horses - so, like cats/dogs, you'd have to register your horses ... but does registration stop stupid people owning horses and doing horrid things to them?

Within dressage - other than complete out and out cruelty, judges really have little ability to stop what is going on ... although people may say that they do nothing - but - think of the average dressage score at a comp (likely to be very low 60% or below 50%) ... the judges are already saying "you haven't got it right ... you're not even fairly good"!! (and yup, I'm one of those who is usually not even "fairly good" :+ )

I found out the other day, a difference between show rules and dressage rules which I didn't know ... EFA national dressage rules state:
"The sighting of any blood on the horse during a test, whether wet or dry, will entail elimination. There is no appeal against this decision" ... whereas there is no such rule for showing, and showing judges can let horses compete with blood.

jumpa
11-07-07, 05:12 AM
Different trainers different methods to get their point across. I would hate to be screamed at the whole lesson, but i like it when i am told the truth (good or bad).

Sparrow it sounds like you've most definately seen the ugly side of that discipline... But there is the good the bad and the ugly in every sport unfortnately.

evenkim1
11-07-07, 06:41 AM
Sparrow!

If they start screaming that's usually a good sign (especially for the old-guard teachers),because it means they know you CAN do better and they themselves aren't prepared to let you settle for any less!

I would rather have someone scream their lungs out at me and know they take me seriously enough to INVEST THAT KIND OF EFFORT (not many people actually ENJOY screaming at someone for an hour!!!) and hand over $150 at the end of it,-
than spend an hour listening to someone blow vast amounts of wind up my posterior and give me the wrong impression of my (lack of) abilities!

There are of course those of us that take lessons to be "patted on the head" and made to feel good .....

I also generaly take "arrogance" to mean superior behaviour by someone who doesn't actually know what they are doing-however,I can assure you that if the guy really was an ex Olympic coach for the Germans, one can reasonably conclude he DID know what he was doing.

Perhaps you mistake arrogance for self confidence?

imnotsaying
11-07-07, 12:01 PM
I suppose the most important lesson that I have learnt from posting on public forums is that you cant please all the poeople all the time. You can say something and it can be interpreted in the number of ways that there is in the minds that read it.
#####! I wish the horses could post for themselves. Even then it is most likely the egos, the selfishness, the vanity and hyprocrisy of humans would still interpret their message in a way that would make our wishing and wanting little worlds seem justifiable.
It seems that it does not really matter what equestrian activity horses are used in, be it dressage, showjumping, western, racing or any other activity that you would like to name. The one common denominator is that it is humans that handle them. Fair enough, if you are trying your best to learn about them and appreciate them and you make mistakes. Fair enough, if you properly care for them and train them and expect them to earn their keep in return. These things, I believe the horse actually enjoys because he feels part of your herd.
But to all those cruel, selfish, egotistical, vain and hypocritical bastards out there, then I would like to offer the following post on behalf of the horse and I would like to ask others of you to do the same.
I need time to think about mine.
What would yours be?

Aida
11-07-07, 12:48 PM
imnotsaying - I'm gonna ponder your post.
Will get back to you in a day or two.
I think what you are saying takes more than an off-the-cuff reply.

But I will say this much.
Do what you can, with what you've got, where you are.
Winston Churchill.

Evenkim and D-D..you did well.
Considering we've got Sparra in our midst.
This is a man who lets his daughter ride without a helmet in an effort to show her "riding free".
Is he trying to dumb her down to his level?
Or is he trying to raise the bar?
Methinks he should have a goooooood look around his own backyard before he launches with an opinon on a public forum regarding a German coach's methodology.

It's easy to come in from "outside" and pick holes - especially if you don't have a.n.y. understanding regarding the holes you are picking.
Sparra - do you not understand about chapter two of the l.o.o.s.e. r.e.i.n. = r.e.w.a.r.d.??
Somtimes, at a higher level other than what we see you daughter doing without a helmet, a loose rein does N.O.T. mean reward - what if you were trying to get an upright TB to learn the long-and-low principle, especially after it has learned that humans have legs that they like to give aids with? Didn't think you did get anyone's drift - and your last post supports that.

ARC's have alot to give to people who probably haven't had much instruction and supervision. ARC's do work well - if only on the premise of "baby steps" with each person and their horse.
Most clubs are confined to an "area" - and things such as basic nutrition are covered, and a climate of safety first is underlying most days I've been to merely as a spectator/instructor.
I like people who are open to some form of instruction - and it is very much a weekend thing for many - which is why I'm a big believer in the FUN aspect of things. For many adults - it's the fun they missed out on because they didn't go to Pony Club.

imnotsaying
11-07-07, 11:02 PM
I agree with you AIDA. It does take more than an off the cuff reply.
I considered my thoughts over a period of time and the followiwing is what I believe that the horse would like to post, if he could, TO US HUMAN BEINGS.

"you think you own me, but you cant. the one who truly owns me is the one who made me. regardless of what you ever do to me or how you treat me, my destiny is greener pastures and clearer waters,
who or what is the one that owns you?
what is your destiny?"

frogfriday
11-07-07, 11:20 PM
I am just curious - what makes you think that horses are interested in philosophy when most humans (being born with a greater capacity for thought and communication) are not?

Sparrow
12-07-07, 03:42 AM
"loose rein does not ALWAYS = nice to horse!"

Eeerrrr ... well it DOES at MY place ??? I know you girlies whom 'DO' dressage look down your noses at ANYONE whom 'Doesn't DO dressage' and believe what YOU do IS the only way ??? Well hate to shatter your little worlds ... but there ARE actually other disciplines that people do with their horses ... and some that ?I have seen would EAT for breakfast the majority of 'dressage queens' when it comes to REAL horsemanship & actually HAVING a rerlationship with their horses ???

The way MY horses are trained .... LOOSE rein DOES = 'nice to horse' ... BECAUSE it is a sign to them from ME ... that work is over & to RELAAAAAAAX ??? When I draft any of my horses whether at a clinic, training day or at a draft .... when it IS time to 'go to work' .... I gather up my reins, get the appropriatecontact .... and we 'go to work' !!! When we cut a beast & are lucky enough to get out the camp & get an outside run .... whether we get a gate OR NOT .... I [ALLWAYS reward my horse when we have finished our run by stopping .... throw away ANY contact .... squeeze the back of their neck .... and walk off !!! This is MY way of communicating to my horse that 'work' is over & we can now relax .... the REWARD was the losing of all pressure .... which MY horses percieve as NICE !!!

Now the REAL question is ... WHY do I have to ride with such contact in the first place ??? Well my horse is young & doesn't know YET how to 'rate a cow' ??? What THAT means is she is not yet experienced enough to work out WHERE to position herself in relation to the beast to control the speed & direction of it. Sooooo ... that is where I have to assume control & take up contact !!! What I am aiming for is where my horse gets BETTER at reading & 'rating' the beast ... & I do LESS in terms of guiding and controlling speed / direction etc .... BUT the reward comes at the end when we are finished 'working' and ALL contact & pressure is released ???


"Didn't think you did get anyone's drift - and your last post supports that"

No I DON'T ... because the reality IS .... loose rein IS interpreted by horsies AS being NICE !!! Except the traumatised 'victims' of the wanna be 'dressage queens' .... as their horses shite em selves if there is no contact .... poor horses ... get freaked out by what SHOULD be a reward ???

"yeah contact is good!
Loose reins mean you prob will jab them in the mouth trying to do anything!"

Well maybe for the dressage primma donna's that just CAN'T figure out how to ride a horse WITHOUT contact & NOT jab it in the gob ??? Just because YOU little darlings ride like THAT ... doesn't mean EVERYONE else does ??? :+ :+ :+

"If they start screaming that's usually a good sign (especially for the old-guard teachers),because it means they know you CAN do better and they themselves aren't prepared to let you settle for any less!

You know ... I have been to more than a few campdraft schools, clinics & training days .... and you know WHAT ??? I have NEVER seen or heard an instructor EVER treat his students in that kind of manner ??? ... must be a methodology that only 'desperate dressage dreamers' respond to ??? :-( :-( :-(

I see that the 'Helmet Nazi's' are back ... AGAIN ??? Shock, horror, dismay ... that silly Spazzy lets his daughter ride helmet less ??? Doesn't he REALISE the risk he is un-necessarily putting his child at ???

Well the short answer is YES !!! Everything we do in life is a calculated 'risk' ... getting out of bed can be dangerous ??? WE are extremely fortunate to actually HAVE horses that we enjoy real 'partnerships' with ... and we DON'T need savage bits with curb chains & use standing martingales to have ANY semblance of control ??? We DON'T need body armour & helmets to 'protect us' from loopy, barely in control horses ??? .... but I just know all those in the silly little bored housewives club would just luuurve to be able to have what we have with our horses .... TRUST & mutual respect ???

The biggest cause of head trauma in this country is a result of motor vehicle accidents ... but I DON'T hear the 'Helmet Nazi's' doing a god damm thing about getting the legislation changed to make it MANDATORY for all motorvehicle occupants to wear crash helmets ??? Now at least THAT WOULD tackle the overwhelming 'Majority' of head trauma ??? .... but that would be taking the 'nanny state' a bit too far for most ne thinks ???

WE have a thing called personal choice ... & I exercise it all the time ??? If what I percieve my daughter is doing with her horse is a 'high risk' .... like drafting or barrel racing or jumping .... then she will wear a stack hat .... but at home having a tonk around in the paddock with her partner .... I am QUITE happy to accept the potential risk for what it is .... REGARDLESS of what the 'Helmet Nazis' have to say.

The SAD reality today is that the way the system is set up .... 'Phony Club' is nothing more than a futile exercise of mummies whom can't ride to save their own lives .... actually 'living their lives' thru their own poor kids ??? The emphasis is placed on periphial RUBBISH & NOTHING on real horsemanship .... like not allowing kids to participate IF they don't have a noseband on their bloody pony ???

All the ARC's that I have had anything to do with ..... are even WORSE !!! Bunch of middle aged nervous nelly housewives whom are incapable of controlling their own horses ... hence they NEVER ride outside a controlled environment ... but continue with all the body armour & necessary helmets to persue their 'dream' of competing ... 'Dressaaaaage' ??? The even SADDER reality is that the VAST majority WILL never improved because the only things bigger than their ego's .... IS THEIR ASSES !!! :+ :+ :+

Suzie Q
12-07-07, 04:15 AM
The reason the helmet was brought up Sparrow is because people care.

Horses are not machines. They can fall and trip, just as easily as you can fall or trip.

A recent case on another forum of a farrier's son. A very experieced boy. A late teengager. They were out trail riding and the horse stepped in a hole and came down. The horse was doing nothing wrong. It was an accident. The boy was not wearing a helmet and landed on a rock.

A tragedy out trailriding. He died instantly. They had to bring the body back on horseback. I am sure you can imagine how awful that ride back must have been.

Please don't tell me that I am an idiot because I will not ride a horse without a helmet. No matter what discipline I am doing I wear a helmet.

Aida
12-07-07, 04:33 AM
Sparra - read my lips - Y.A.W.N.
I've read all your c.r.a.p. numerous times before, and yes - you are a complete idiot for dumbing-down your child by letting her think a helmet isn't needed just because she has a connection with her horse.

I really hope for your sake, that her helmetless future children don't get spudded off the welshie into a tree. That's when you'll know that you've done the wrong thing by your own child.

imnotsaying - I'll PM you.

Sparrow
12-07-07, 06:24 AM
"A recent case on another forum of a farrier's son. A very experieced boy. A late teengager. They were out trail riding and the horse stepped in a hole and came down. The horse was doing nothing wrong. It was an accident. The boy was not wearing a helmet and landed on a rock"

And on another forum I use was recently an article about a person whom slipped over getting out of the bath ... and sustianed serious head injuries .... wasn't she aware that bathing with a helmet would reduce ALL risk of possible head injury ???


Aydaaaaah .... after reading your last comment .... you definately qualify as about the most BORING contributor here .... and DILLIGAF what you may think ??? :+ :+ :+

jumpa
12-07-07, 06:25 AM
Wow it seems that the egotistical male has a lot to say today!!
Sparrow,
Do you think that lack of control is a reason for all falls ?? Loopy horses with those gadgets on them that they cant think straight and ditch the rider???
A girl that I know fell riding without a helmet in a paddock just trotting - the horse tripped over- horse was not off its head, just an accident. I canít see the trust or mutual respect that you so eloquently preach helping her outÖ She suffered severe brain damage and took years to become functional again.
You are right that it is totally about personal choice, and I respect you choice for not wearing a helmet. However I do not believe it is fair to critique those who wish to protect themselves with a helmet. Wearing a helmet or not wearing one is no indicator of horsemanship skills nor ability.
I love how you seem to make an effort to (once again.. surprise suprise) put down others to inflate your own ego. Seriously have a good hard look at yourself. I do not see anyone here speaking ill of your chosen discipline so I canít understand why you feel the need to do it to others. Every discipline has its merits. Itís a shame you cant see past your prejudices and see the GOOD in things that you may not take part in.

Suzie Q
12-07-07, 06:41 AM
No Sparra Darling Sweetheart Gorgeous, you DGAF about anything. Not about us and not about anybody that you have never met.

The sad thing is that you are not being moderated on the www. Just by being an adult you are a role model for the young. You don't care one iota that what you type may be detrimental to them. You don't care that they could be hurt. You don't care at all.

The even sadder thing is that the people who do care are giving up. They have moved to another website to get away from you. You - out of sheer ignorance and stubborness are winning and will win in the end. People posting to show where and how wrong you are get less and less each day. Not because you are right, but because they can see that there is no point. Your mind is closed. You keep putting out the same tripe day after day after day and we get sick of hearing it and having to refute it.

I know you are wallowing with happiness because you think you are winning, but the rest of us just hope and pray that nobody is hurt because of you.

Renvers
12-07-07, 07:07 AM
Sparrow, I have sent you a pm as I don't have the heart to drag this out.

frogfriday
12-07-07, 07:11 AM
I have two helmets at home that I keep as they show that helmets save lives.

1. when I was 5ish, galloping down a track, pony trips (but doesn't fall), I come off the side head first onto a tree root. I am glad the damage happened to the helment and not my head.

2. Fast forward 10-odd years, walking on a loose rein in a bush paddock at home, horse is scared by something underfoot (snake? stick moved against her foot?) jumps forward a step and I go off head first onto a rock. Again, I am glad the damage happened to the helmet and not my head.

There was mutual trust and respect (as well as a great bond) with both of these horses. I trust(ed) them implicitly. Accidents happen. Both of these horses were literally (and I mean literally) bomb proof.

Most accidents occur in the house, motor accidents are major causes of trauma; but I think you will find (if proper analysis were performed - which, let's face it - is not going to be done for this little cyberspat) that this is related to the amount of time spent doing these 'activities'.


Imnotsaying et al - I do hope that the original discussion doesn't go to PM only. I might not agree with everything, but it has been interesting.

Jesssica
12-07-07, 07:14 AM
A work college once commented how much harder western was then dressage cause you donít get to 'pull the horses head into place in western'.

Oh what justice it was to see her start riding dressage a few years later and discover that if you do just 'pull your horses head in' you get no-where fast.

All of a sudden she doesnít want to go out of grade 5 dressage cause she knows she cant do grade 4 (yes this girl still cant sit to the canter).

I have always found the ones that bag another discipline are the least knowledgeable. They have their own discipline, compete at the lowest grades, are praised a lot cause the judges are trying to be kind, make huge improvements quickly (you do when you are that bad!) and suddenly think they know everything.
Gosh they shut up quickly when they try to do what they are criticising themselves.

By the way - I clipped my horse on the weekend. Not so he would look pretty but for 2 reasons
1) he was getting very hot - to hot when training due to his thick winter cost - gosh he worked so much easier after being clipped!
2) he has an event nearly every weekend for the next 2 months and I donít want him standing tied to a float dripping in sweat after a xcountry run while I xcountry my other horse (she is a t/b and didnít need clipping).

WHY ARE PEOPLE SO NARROW MINDED?????????????????

Yes there are people out there doing things cause it makes them / their horses look good but most horsie people do things cause they are trying to either look after their horse or learning ho to achieve that much sought after 'partnership'.

Sparrow
12-07-07, 07:18 AM
"The sad thing is that you are not being moderated on the www"

No actually ... it is a GOOD thing ??? If it's all too much for you you can always retreat to your other 'safe' little all girl 'mutual masturbation' forum ??? At least THERE you can all agree on EVERYTHING and pat each other on the back ??? NO naughty dissenters allowed !!!

"You are right that it is totally about personal choice, and I respect you choice for not wearing a helmet. However I do not believe it is fair to critique those who wish to protect themselves with a helmet"

Well jumpa .... I don't CARE if people use a helmet or not .... but I get pissed off when all the 'helmet nazi's' some climbing out the wood work CRITICISING ME because of the decisions I MAKE ??? But that would have to be a 'two way street' ... and we all know how THAT is not acceptable when you have horses & women involved ???


I was just reading John O'Leary's site before coming over here .... and I came across his latest 'gem' of wisdom ???


"This will probably hit a cord with every Professional and Coach that ever walked, probably never gets said in Public but sure needs to.

We all meet people in this Industry who we go over and above the call of duty to help, advise, encourage, try to put rods up their backs, bit of straight talk sometimes (in the nicest possible way) ride their horses, show their horses and anything else you like to think about along the lines of assistance to them and their dreams. 'BUT YA CAN'T BLOODY TELL EM"

They don't bloody listen.

They are often in self denial.

They Pay for advice and don't take it.

They buy horses that they clearly can't handle

They buy horses that are hands too high for them because they have a fetish for big horses

They are normally Novice or maximum Average Riders and they buy Good to Excellent Riders' horses

They are pathetically weak when it comes to handling horses.

They often live in the past when they may have been a bit of alright 20 years ago but forget that time has passed, they have Kids or they Dream up and believe their own Propoganda about past exploits which completely clouds their minds and their realism.

They think that carrots and grooming and softly, softly approaches will win the love of horses.

Horses generally hate their guts.

They fail horse after horse, year after year and in some cases, decade after decade.

Some, not the majority, blame the Coaches or Trainers, they will not look in the mirror.

They get advice after advice but will they follow it? No way. They actively re-stuff the horse that is being fixed by a Professional for good money, week after week and undo the work done.

They do not carry out the promises to do x,y,z between this ride and the next. They do not perform.

Then when they ride the horse that is fixed, they are blitheringly weak and worried Riders' who should never be on the horse in the first place but do you think they will take the advice that the horse doesn't suit them, no way. Do you think they will sell the leaping, shying, athletic, performance horse and go buy one suited to them? No way.

and they have to prove the Professional wrong.

They frustrate the Hell out people and drive some Mad. Every Coach can swap tails about dozens of them. Why is it so? Well I feel that Psychologists should be consulted in a lot of cases or perhaps hypnotism because they sure as Hell do not take advice.

So should they be in the Horse Industry? Probably not but they have burning love of horses which is most admirable and to be admired, the main reason Horse Professionals probably help these people so much but they don't get the one thing. Horses cannot stand people who treat them as Toys, Dolls or Pets. Horses love horses that kick their gutses out in the paddock People just have to work it out. Horse love assertive owners who are leaders and cannot stand beggars and bribers for respect. Respect equals friendship, weakness equals a lack of respect which grows and grows and then they threaten to kick, buck, rear and everything else one can think of. Wake up and Smell the Roses!!!!

This has been meant for no one particular person, just the many who will not take advice and make it easy on themselves and their Coaches".

FAR OUT ... sounds like an echo .... *ROTFLMAO*

Aida
12-07-07, 07:29 AM
Sparra - read my lips - Y.A.W.N.

I've read all your c.r.a.p. numerous times before, and yes - you are a complete idiot for dumbing-down your child by letting her think a helmet isn't needed just because she has a connection with her horse.

I really hope for your sake, that her helmetless future children don't get spudded off the welshie into a tree.

That's when you'll know that you've done the wrong thing by your own child.

jumpa
12-07-07, 07:32 AM
"Well jumpa .... I don't CARE if people use a helmet or not .... but I get pissed off when all the 'helmet nazi's' some climbing out the wood work CRITICISING ME because of the decisions I MAKE ??? But that would have to be a 'two way street' ... and we all know how THAT is not acceptable when you have horses & women involved ???"

lol oh the hypocrisy!!

You speak of a two way street, and yet your actions suggest that its your way or the highway..

I refer you to an earlier post of mine - dressage literally means training... so that makes you technically a dressage rider as well.

Sparrow
12-07-07, 07:42 AM
"I refer you to an earlier post of mine - dressage literally means training... so that makes you technically a dressage rider as well"

Oowww .. the shock ... the HORROR !!!

Yes you are RIGHT .... even ol Sparra does a 'version' of dressage in Working Stock Horse & even when drafting .... the difference there is I don't have blinkers on & believe that MY chosen equine sport is the 'Elite' ??? Something for all the dressage wanna be's to ponder ???

ASHlover
12-07-07, 07:50 AM
Wow...what a surprise.

Sparrow sprouting crap....and everyone else defending themselves against him. When will you all learn??

Suzie Q
12-07-07, 07:53 AM
That is exactly what I mean AshLover. So many people are now not responding that his is the only voice you hear. Very bad for Cyberhorse. In his mind he thinks he has won.

ASHlover
12-07-07, 08:02 AM
>The way MY horses are trained .... LOOSE rein DOES = 'nice
>to horse' ... BECAUSE it is a sign to them from ME ... that
>work is over & to RELAAAAAAAX ??? When I draft any of my
>horses whether at a clinic, training day or at a draft ....
>when it IS time to 'go to work' .... I gather up my reins,
>get the appropriatecontact .... and we 'go to work' !!! When
>we cut a beast & are lucky enough to get out the camp & get
>an outside run .... whether we get a gate OR NOT .... I
>[ALLWAYS reward my horse when we have finished our
>run by stopping .... throw away ANY contact .... squeeze the
>back of their neck .... and walk off !!! This is MY way of
>communicating to my horse that 'work' is over & we can now
>relax .... the REWARD was the losing of all pressure ....
>which MY horses percieve as NICE !!!

Would like to point out that despite your apparent infinate knowledge on all things horsie Sparrow - you clearly do not know anything about dressage or the people who compete in it.

Perhaps you should watch a dressage test - and watch what happens at the end of the test. Perhaps then you will realise the crap you are sprouting about a dressage horse not being relieved after it's job is done is just that - Crap.

Reneem1377
12-07-07, 08:06 AM
What was the original topic again...? Oh, who am i kidding, who cares what the topic was?

To all the people who keep telling Sparrow to go away...He's what keeps this place interesting!!! Do you really think this thread would have made 50-odd posts if there wasn't some controversy? Why does everyone WANT the same opinion spouted over and over??? Why don't you people admit that its FAR more interesting this way!??

I'll admit, sometimes Sparrow is a bit...blunt... - shall we say - but i think you can ALL give as good as you get. If he upsets you then just don't post here...I can't understand why you're all up-in-arms...sparrow LIKES creating this kind of controversy...I've told you people before!!!!

The fact is that some of us here are NEVER going to agree with others, but the challenge is to put forward your views and opinions so that people who read these posts can make up their own minds who they agree with and what they believe in.

I think that there are SO many people out there who ABUSE these beautiful animals for the sake of their own egos by making NO attempt to understand WHY horse's behave the way that they do...This is across all disciplines.

I think it should be compulsory for people owning horse's to do a basic horse psychology course to make them really THINK about the way we interact with these wonderful creatures.

Urtica
12-07-07, 08:10 AM
Just as a bystander - if he thinks heīs won, then let him and smile! Brighten his da and make him happy.

Iīve read through this crap and it just makes me wonder on how much testosterone an intelligent being has to be to disqualify himself for being this silly -- it sounds very much like a 15 year old bully.

And now smile -- every day a good deed.

simigirl75
12-07-07, 08:14 AM
Sparrow likes the female members to bite. No denying that lol!!! :+ :+ :+ Why does he do it??? Obviously he has his own issues, mmm wonder if it all started with his mummy????:+ :+ :+


Hey Sparrow, when are you going to sit down with your mummy, a box of kleenex and a cup of nescafe? The coffee will bring you together, the tissues will wipe away your tears and your mummy can give you a huge hug to make you feel better.



http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/araluendemo.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/HannahKingandZari.jpg

Piny_Pot
12-07-07, 08:30 AM
While Sparrow often has worthwhile views on a topic (even though tact is not a strong point) I hate the way he always attacks woman and dressage Ė Sparrow get over it. You ranting on repeatedly about these two things just shows how much you DONíT know about either and just lowers our opinion of you and any view that you may have.

Everyone has different views and if you donít like dressage fine donít do it (even though as stated above any sort of training is dressage and to get anywhere in ANY discipline you need the basics of dressage) but donít tell us that we shouldnít be doing it because of any mistaken views that you have. Itís a pity that you are so blind that you can not see anyone elseís point of view or accept that not everyone likes what you like.

Also if we are happy to be yelled at by our instructor - fine! Let us be yelled at. If we donít like it we will tell them so or get new instructor. Did it ever occur to you that some of us need to be yelled at from time to time?

This is the first time I have heard about you encouraging your daughter not to wear a helmet and I donít think you could be more irresponsible. But thatís your choice and you will have to be the one that lives with the consequences if anything goes wrong. I just hope it doesnít and that no one else takes your lead.

Of course I reckon he only goes on like this on a public forum to rile us up but hey keeps it interesting. In real life I really donít give a rats about him.

CateH
12-07-07, 09:12 AM
LOLS @ Sparrow. Girls, if you'll pardon my pun, I wouldn't bother trying to put him in his place... it's all water off a ducks back :+

Anyhoo, on to the point.... IMHO I see many people on horses they are not suited to, and shouldn't be on, because they would like to progress. Maybe there should be a dressage rule that no-one is allowed a WB until they are riding Medium? }> ANY horse, of ANY breed, can do the tests, so why blow the equivalent of a new car on a horse when you're never going to the Olympics?

Money does not = talent, we all know that, but people with money who are also hard-working at their riding, often put their trust in their instructor / trainer to select an excellent horse for them. Maybe the definition of excellent in this context needs to be revised...? Success will always have more to do with the compatibiltiy of horse and rider, than anything else. For example, take Wendy Shaeffer on her pony club mount winning am Olympic Gold. Then take riders who compete on horses that cost many times what Sunburst did, who will never make it past novice - or who have a horrible time going out, with an unhappy horse.

Those latter category would be better off on a standard bred or stock horse until they learned to ride and train sympathetically enough to cope with more difficult horses. One of the truest things I ever heard was from a trainer who said that the horses with a trace of arrogance are usually the best ones later on. But they're not for everyone. It takes a lot of honesty to admit whether that expensive hay muncher in the back paddock is really right for you :)

And to Sparrow, old buddy, I have a stock horse who's campdrafted, won working classes, and now does dressage. Part of my warm up, if I have room, is doing some stock horse work prior to a show class or a test because it wakes the horse up! (it also frees him up over the back) :) I've got a horse with such a great temperament but also with good paces. I can lob up to a dressage comp, tie him up and he goes to sleep. I'm sure if I can work on it, that my horse is quite capable of doing Medium, (not so sure about me!) as well as chasing cows if that's what I want to do. I take it as a badge of honour that he's an ASH competing against WBs and TBs with their more extravagant movement. At least I don't get bucked off!

I was once asked in all innocence by someone whether I'd be selling Stormie and buying a WB now I liked dressage. I was aghast - as IF! I'm all about getting on with the horse I've got, and getting the most out of our relationship, not trading in, trading up in an effort to compensate ;)



http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/Cateh/horsebar1.gif

Horse sense - something that horses have that stops them betting on humans.

Renvers
12-07-07, 09:59 AM
Good post Cate!!!!
Just out of interest, and not to detract at all from the point you were making, I bet most people don't know that Wendy's mum packed little Sunburst off to a trainer in the UK (for a year,if my memory serves me correctly) to learn to be a dressage horse so they'd stand half a chance of success.
I remember reading about it in H&H, in the 'Horse of a Lifetime' column.
I think Wendy's a great eventer but the 'Pony Club to Olympics' path was not quite as straightforward as some would have us believe.
Anyway, back to the fray folks.....

Sparrow
12-07-07, 10:33 AM
"I take it as a badge of honour that he's an ASH competing against WBs and TBs with their more extravagant movement. At least I don't get bucked off!"

ROTFLMAO !!! .... what do you mean ... DON'T get bucked off ??? *winks*

My sister competes over here as a B Grade eventer .... and has done really well over the years and what sets HER apart from many others ... is her dressage .... she FLOGS em on her QH !!! She the same ... gets asked all the time when she is 'moving up' to a 'serious' eventer ??? WTF would you sell a horse that is EVERYTHING you could ever want in an equine partner ... only to replace with some temperamental piece of crap that just makes your life more stressful ???

Why ??? ..... because 'proper' eventers DON'T ride QH's !!! ... APPARENTLY ??? .... they just like coming second to those whom DO ride QH's ??? .... apparently ???

I too just luurve seeing those with more money than brains practicing 'cheque book horsemanship' ??? Because THEY know that MONEY can & does buy experience, horsemanship ... and above all else .... SNOB VALUE ??? :+ :+ :+

CateH
12-07-07, 11:09 AM
LOLS...... well, I've done many an "unofficial dismount" from the beast, bless his fat furry hide, but he truly isn't a bucker. He's a napper, a shoulder dropper, a nancy boy, and many other things, but he keeps all 4 hooves on the dirt mostly :D

He was shown extensively as a 2 and 3 year old, and thinks that dressage days are a total yawn as they don't include harness races, camels, helicopters and other such exciting things ;)

Another reason why showing is good for dressage horses IMHO :)

And since I'm suffering from verbal dia/ dioherr/ diarhea?!? ....

I don't think there's anything wrong with competition, or being a competitor, as long as you value your horse as your partner, not your tool. We're all different people, and I for one am motivated to compete in whatever I do - it wouldn't matter what sport. I hate being bad at things, and I really enjoy getting to grips with problems and working through them. I enjoy the training as much as the test, and see it as a journey. I don't get nervous at competitions (not dressage ones anyway ;) ) I just enjoy getting out there and having a go!

These are all good skills and essential to a rider who wants to compete, but you have to balance it with love / respect for your horses and their individual capabilities at any one time and place. The story of Nicole and Milo might be a perfect example of asking too much from your horse on a certain day, when on another day he'd have coped.

So what's my point here...? *looks carefully at navel* - competition is good if done in the right spirit i.e. test yourself to see how far you've progressed. Don't worry about the others, its just you and your horse out there trying to do a good job. There will always be people who don't want to compete, and that's totally cool, but for those of us who do want to get out there, it's not necessarily a sign of evilness :D


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/Cateh/horsebar1.gif

Horse sense - something that horses have that stops them betting on humans.

LB
12-07-07, 11:23 AM
"even ol Sparra does a 'version' of dressage in Working Stock Horse & even when drafting"

Yes we know....we've seen you ride in that video....at what would be preparatory level...and ride very poorly too!

Enough said - I've read enough of your jingoist drivel to start wondering if perhaps you have a drinking problem...as your sig might suggest

Aida
12-07-07, 11:30 AM
Sparra - read my lips - Y.A.W.N.
I've read all your c.r.a.p. numerous times before, and yes - you are a complete idiot for dumbing-down your child by letting her think a helmet isn't needed just because she has a connection with her horse.

I really hope for your sake, that her helmetless future children don't get spudded off the welshie into a tree.

That's when you'll know that you've done the wrong thing by your own child.

Aida
12-07-07, 11:30 AM
Sparra - read my lips - Y.A.W.N.
I've read all your c.r.a.p. numerous times before, and yes - you are a complete idiot for dumbing-down your child by letting her think a helmet isn't needed just because she has a connection with her horse.

I really hope for your sake, that her helmetless future children don't get spudded off the welshie into a tree.

That's when you'll know that you've done the wrong thing by your own child.

Aida
12-07-07, 11:31 AM
Sparra - read my lips - Y.A.W.N.
I've read all your c.r.a.p. numerous times before, and yes - you are a complete idiot for dumbing-down your child by letting her think a helmet isn't needed just because she has a connection with her horse.

I really hope for your sake, that her helmetless future children don't get spudded off the welshie into a tree.

That's when you'll know that you've done the wrong thing by your own child.

Aida
12-07-07, 11:32 AM
Very well written Cate !!
As usual !! :) :)

Aida
12-07-07, 11:34 AM
May as well get ENDO in here.....then he can have some fun with Sparra and Freckles.

Y.A.W.N.

CateH
12-07-07, 11:45 AM
Murki buckets Aida :)


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/Cateh/horsebar1.gif

Horse sense - something that horses have that stops them betting on humans.

Sparrow
12-07-07, 11:57 AM
Don't know what has happened to Frecks ... he seems to have disappeared ???

Oh well ... lokks like it's just me to play with all the little girlies ??? *winks*

pauper
12-07-07, 12:16 PM
YAWN

Imnotsaying can we start this thread again, with out the bird droppings?
if birds keep shitting on your head, then dont feed them and they will fly away!


If a little bit is good for you, then a whole lot must be better!

imnotsaying
12-07-07, 03:19 PM
I hope that I did not upset you frogfriday. Jesus, you had better help me out in the morning for this. I am so bloody stupid, I could never be a philosopher. So it therefore must have been what the horses would want to say. As for me, I do believe that At one time Christ walked this earth and he died so as to forgive our sins. Please, dont hammer me Sparrow. I like your style even though it is a bit rough around the edges. To be honest with you all, the initial reason for my post was tainted with a hidden desire.
Myself and my daughter have started a business together dealing in dressage horses.
Times have been tough, but we have always tried to remain honest.
The thing that gives me the shits most is that we try to do the right thing by people and all we seem to get for it is a kick in the guts.
I sought advice from the "experts" and they all told to just "play the game".
It seemed to me that if I sucked up the arse of a higher authority then I would be thrown enough scraps so as to survive.
Fark that. I would rather change the way the game is played than sell my soul.
Now for all you smartarses out there who think that this is only confined to dressage, then I would think again.
And for Christs sake, I hope all you christians dont disown me. As I recall HE said "what was once last will now become first and what was once first will now become last"

Bats_79
12-07-07, 04:57 PM
Personally (insert stamping foot smiley face here please) I always write good posts and nobody pays any attention to me but everyone pays attention to sparrow. :( I'm going to start calling you all dressage queens to. x(

In the meantime - as a dressage rider and trainer who has been coached by the person mentioned by sparrow - he didn't yell at me cause I would have fallen off in tears - I do not like to be yelled at during a lesson and I wouldn't try harder if I was yelled at. I try as hard as I can when I understand what is being asked (or told) and if I don't understand then it's the coach's job to help me understand not to yell at me.

In defense of sparrow's position (sort of) there are some dressage riders who DON'T know the meaning of loose rein - for reward or any other reason. I know this because many of them ride with reins that are physically so short they CAN'T give the horse a loose rein. I have to tell them to hold the rein up the horses neck so it can actually relax and stretch is's neck. In my opinion they can't ever be riding properly if they can't give the horse a long rein.

Otherwise - most of you are right but so is sparrow - except for his mysogonistic attitude. I climb on my own and my pupils dressage horses without a hard hat. I know its stupid but if I thought I was going to be hurt I wouldn't be getting on the horse at all - it brings my mother to despair it's such a bad habit. It would be different if it was just my own horses but I really shouldn't do it with other peoples horses. But I will NOT be told I have to wear a crash hat with my tails in FEI.

Urtica
12-07-07, 06:43 PM
Sorry bats, weīre sincerely distressed and crushed to pieces by your eloquence. Weīll definitely start ignoring sparrow and begin to bicker on you.

Feel better?

Ok - as to the helmet business. I think all of us have one or two times sitten on a horse without wearing a helmet, but in our riding classes no child is encouraged not to wear one - I donīt let anyone climb on one of our horses without being properly dressed. One bad drop and the insurance companys make minced meat of me - Iīm paying for the rest of my miserable life.
That applies to my kids, too!
What happens if you fall of your horse and get paraplegic or have a skull fracture? The insurance company check if you would be healthy if you have worn a helmet. If you havenīt you are in for added problems.

Itīs no sign of a good rider not to wear protective garments - its a sign for a stupid one (all of us included who do it just once for the sake of appearance or convenience).

frogfriday
12-07-07, 10:38 PM
Hi imnotsaying, you didn't upset me at all. I hope I didn't upset you - I really was just curious :-).

People have such different ideas about what their horses think and want. I don't know that I agree with you, but people 'react' to horses in different ways, get different 'impressions' from them, which is why I wondered how you got your thoughts and ideas. Does that make any sense?

I'm sorry that you have had a hard time with your business - this seems to happen everywhere, unfortunately. I don't think that anyone should be made to think that they should only receive 'scraps' in any business, though.

This was a really interesting topic though, pity it went of course...

Suzie Q
13-07-07, 03:30 AM
I will apologise to you to Bats. I mightn't always reply, but if you stopped me in the street and mentioned your cybername I would know you and greet you with a hug.

Okay I admit it, it is not the fear of falling off that I wear a helmet.

It is because I know that I am a role model, so do it for others ..... it is also because if I one day fall off and get majorly hurt and I am not wearing a helmet, my mum will kill me ..... and I am scared of her.

kevarose
13-07-07, 04:04 AM
>Gidday kevarose. If I was starting all over again with the
>"chrystal ball" known as hindsight, these would be the
>things that I would hold dear.
>The first thing that I would do is to try to more quickly
>gain the "instinct" required to become a better horseperson.
>and you should not rush what time takes to learn.
Thanks imnotsaying. I have owned my new horse Elle for 7 weeks now (after 3.5 years of owning ponies and having a lesson about on ground stuff most weeks) and I am going very slowly with Elle. Haven't got on her back yet and I won't till she spends 3 weeks with Steve Rattey who is going to ride her in a number of situations and do more "gentling" with her (she is a bit spooky and he is from the Monty Roberts camp). I am also having lessons but it is very early days. What gives me the most pleasure is that Elle and I seem to be developing such a bond, even moreso than the pony gelding I had for 3.5 years and just sold so I could buy a horse to ride. I think she was lonely in the clinical equestrian centre she lived in for 4 years and now has such a loving "herd" of her pony mate and me and she is lapping it up. The saddler came the other day and I was attending to other things and he called me over and said, this horse of yours is loopy about you - followed your voice all over the property, even leaving her food. I do know I was scared of her when I first got her but no longer have the slightest fear and she used to shy just walking around my property with me which unnerved me but she no longer does this and I can calm her with the word "steady" and she seems to like me talking to her. We go for a walk every day and today we walked out onto the main road and down to the village and it was fine. One flapping flag might have made her shy but I was able to reassure her. She is very anxious about leaving her pony paddock mate but even today she was a little better with that. So yes, I adore this horse and love learning things with her. She is respectful and obedient and appears to not have a mean bone in her body - well so far! So for me, the riding will be the icing on the cake but what I love is the bond with her and her smoochy head on my shoulder and sniggers when she sees me and her pony mate also. They are fantastic animals that could teach humans a thing or two! There is no way I will ever do anything with her that she is not with her willing participation and as she seems quick to learn, all I have to do is work out her language and show her what I want in the clearest way - lots of teaching ahead for me and for her. I learn a lot reading some of the posts here.
>p.s. a star rating for my rant would be much appreciated.

Lots of stars but how do I "rate" and where do I put it??

Sparrow
13-07-07, 04:06 AM
Owwwww Bats ... you have REALLY let the cat outa the bag NOW !!!

I would assume if you WERE getting instruction from 'Herr Hitler' ... then you really do compete at the upper levels of your chosen equine sport ???

So in YOUR experience as a 'dressaaaaage' rider & TRAINER ... you ACTUALLY really DO come across people who DON'T know the meaning of loose rein ???

Shock ... HORROR ??? I thought it was only us backyarders that could EVER have such little understanding .... *winks*

And you are a very naughty girl for taking such un-necessary risks by riding without safety helmet ??? But it seems more common than most of the helmet nazi's want to admit ???

Dressage ESPECIALLY seems to be FULL of irresponsible 'idiots' too ???

http://www.eurodressage.com/images/2005/05ach/05ach-anky-painted-6465.jpg
Nice safety helmet ???

http://www.dressagedirect.com/uploads/images/6lOhKoEOUiNEu-qCnpzWkg/AnkyEKHagen05.jpg
Doesn't she realise SHE is an 'ADULT ... and THEREFORE is a role model ???

http://www.dressagedirect.com/uploads/images/n6DClA3xj8F9FPFiqam3Iw/Anky_van_Grunsven_and_Salinero.jpg
That's IT ... I'm NEVER taking MY kids to see the dressage EVER again ... don't want them picking up ANY bad habits from these 'IDIOTS' that DON'T wear stack hats ??? :+ :+ :+

I think what I'll have to do ... to fit in here a bit better ... IS get rid of my 'little' horsies that I currently 'monster' into submission .... and get me some mad out of control OTTB ??? .... at least THEN I'd have something in common with all the naysayers ??? *winks*

simigirl75
13-07-07, 04:22 AM
Once upon a time there was a non-conforming sparrow who decided not to fly south for the winter. However, soon the weather turned so cold that he reluctantly decided to fly south. In a short time ice began to form on his wings and he fell to Earth in a barnyard, nearly frozen solid. A cow passed by where he had fallen, and crapped on the little sparrow.The sparrow thought it was the end, but the manure warmed him and defrosted his wings!

Warm and happy, able to breath, he started to sing.

Just then a large cat came by, and hearing the chirping he investigated the sounds. The cat cleared away the manure, found the chirping bird, and promptly ate him.



The Moral of the Story:

Everyone who craps on you is not necessarily your enemy

Everyone who gets you out of crap is not necessarily your friend.

And if you're warm and happy in a pile of crap, you might just want to keep your mouth shut.






http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/araluendemo.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/HannahKingandZari.jpg

Sparrow
13-07-07, 04:30 AM
Well simi ...

Bring on your best 'pussy' ???

And simmi ... in the southern hemisphere where WE live .... things fly NORTH to escape the winter !!! .... so much for cut & paste huh ???

Fergie 04 .... I am seriously FLATTERED that you have fantasies about me ... but PLEASE STOP !!! .... as I AM already spoken for ???

simigirl75
13-07-07, 04:55 AM
Naturally I'd cut and paste something I find amusing. It is after all in jest. Wow didn't think you'd read into it so seriously! :+
http://www.owlsweb.info/images/laugh.gif


When it comes to you, I'm not going to bite. Instead I'm going to laugh because I find you amusing. Yes here in Aus things are different. Like Sparrows for example. They're rodents with wings :).

Now Sparrow, don't resort to pick up lines. I'm happily married, I don't know about you???




http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/araluendemo.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/HannahKingandZari.jpg

Sparrow
13-07-07, 04:58 AM
"Now Sparrow, don't resort to pick up lines. I'm happily married, I don't know about you???"

Aaawww Simmi .... MY standards ARE a little higher than you ??? *winks*

simigirl75
13-07-07, 04:59 AM
Awww it's good you can handle rejection *winks*


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/araluendemo.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/HannahKingandZari.jpg

Tramp_96
13-07-07, 05:22 AM
I Can understand exactly why Bats is getting shirty.

Its not very often you get to converse with someone experianced in your chosen field, & I for one think we take advantage of that fact.

All well & good, we can all make smarta*se comments, but when we all need proper advise from these people they wont be there!

& you may have to **GASP** PAY for it.

p.s you make me chuckle simi.

ISAAC
13-07-07, 06:20 AM
LMAO..This is better than any soapie on the old idiot box..
When you sit down & think about it..this really is a circus..
Grown people acting like this behind a keyboard..LMAO Funny..!!!
But hey it brightens up my day..maybe we should all sit back & have a laugh as I am really hoping that thats the whole point of it..to have a laugh cause its laughable...!!!

Tramp_96
13-07-07, 06:36 AM
This is far more intriguing than days of our lives!

simigirl75
13-07-07, 06:46 AM
I certainly don't take it seriously PMSL!


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/araluendemo.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a386/simigirl75/HannahKingandZari.jpg

DressageDreamer
13-07-07, 06:59 AM
I don't know about others but I kinda got lost in hysterical giggles after I read:

"Every Coach can swap tails about dozens of them."

.... and of course dressage coaches would have devil tails :+ :+

I always find it fascinating the differences between people who think they are doing their horse a kindness. One person's cosy stable, is another person's form of abuse. One person's loose rein, is another's idea of a tight rein. ... and of course ... you can't discount the horse's point of view ... what some like, others hate!

ASHlover
13-07-07, 06:59 AM
Keyboard warriors?? ;)

Most people do take it seriously though Simi - too bloody touchy!

Bats_79
13-07-07, 10:02 AM
Awww guys, you've made my day. :D

Thank God for teaching or I'd be a keyboard warrior at the moment. Too many horses in the paddock.

wallvale
13-07-07, 11:41 AM
Bats - I WAS in tears with that german coach.
Pity you don't live around the corner from me as I would love a lesson from you.
And I am still trying to work out WHO you are :D :D

Now Sparrow - I think you are making Campdrafters sound like idiots sadly, as there is a lot of great horseman and wonderful people amongst them.
To all dressage riders and anyone else that sparrow has offended - please don't think all campdrafters are like that.

Sparrow is very much like the campdrafters of 30 years ago wanting to bash the dresssseeege riders. That is the reason I stopped drafting as all I wanted to do is learn and this german woman started coming into our area and it was like seeing the light for me. So I become a dressage rider competitor, coach and judge :D

BUT, I still have my stockhorses for working our property (with NO 1/4 horse blood in them :D )

Reata
13-07-07, 01:09 PM
I have only just seen this thread and haven't read it all the way through but I will give a couple of my thoughts on this..
Number one reason for unhappy horses and unhappy humans is lack of knowledge.. Too many people are forcing horses to do stuff and not allowing them ..
Once you start forcing a horse, you get very demanding and you start to miss the tiny improvements the horse makes and so you stop rewarding him ..It gets to be however hard he tries its never good enough.. his rider is always wanting more and more.. He can never come up for air .. hes never praised.. He tries so hard until..
CABOOOM!!! he goes FRUITLOOP!!!
I find this so sad to watch.. I hate the attitude of a lot of riders.. I can't stand to see Pony club instructors carrying on this way of thinking to young riders..
I watch people handle horses who have no idea about "Horses"
They are rude and have nothing to offer the horse and the horse blocks them out .. They yell and hit and push and pull..
The horse gets worse.. they get worse.. Soon horses are no fun anymore.. soon the horse starts to get a little Loopy.. a little dangerous.. I'm afraid I can't watch this stuff.
I get called out to help people with their horses.. and 99 times out of 100 the horse is fine.. The human has NO IDEA..
I think most humans have lost the ability to feel for horses.
I don't know where this is all going to end up??
My heart goes out to those "fruitloop" horses.. They were not always like that.. They deserve much better..:(

mandybale
13-07-07, 02:11 PM
a reply to the OP. I think the problem is that horse owners these days don't come from 'horsey' backgrounds. thats all I can say on the subject. But I will add, if you aren't brought up with them and live with them then how do you really 'know' them. thats all I have to say.

imnotsaying
13-07-07, 02:49 PM
Had a look at your homepage mandybale. Pretty impressive. Wished you had room to use "christmas" as a header instead of "x-mas". I liked the bike also.

imnotsaying
13-07-07, 02:57 PM
A reply to myself?
Speaking of horses. Who would like to have a race with the "western showies" thread.
First group to 1,000 wins.
Remember, Sparrow, you are on our side.
Bring them all on in mate!

Sparrow
13-07-07, 04:20 PM
"Remember, Sparrow, you are on our side"

Aahhhh ... WRONG ... I'm on MY side !!! :+ :+ :+

I am quite flattered all the same, that you actually consider me to be on 'our' side ??? *winks*

CateH
14-07-07, 01:39 AM
Wallvale, totally agree with what you say about SOME campdrafters. Of the ones I know, they're a mixed bunch.... you always get a couple who drag some poor unsuspecting trail horse out of a paddock that hasn't been shod in 8 weeks, and then try and flog it round the camp - and think they'll win by breaking the sound barrier outside.

But the good ones, are more and more cross training. Campdrafting is an incredibly competitive sport. When you go in and you're one of 400 runners in your Novice draft, let alone the other levels, you better be pretty bloody good to get anywhere. If you don't score 85+ from the judge, forget going to the finals :)

I can quote David Wilson, who's one of the country's most successful professional ASH breeders, showers, and drafters. I went to a campdraft school he ran at Camden, and he openly says everyone should do some dressage to educate their horse, get them going softly and forwards. Every horse you take into a draft needs to be incredibly good off the leg, and be soft in the mouth. If they're not, sooner or later you'll be running flat out and need to stop before you go through the fence - and you might not. It's a bit serious if that happens ;)

I know of some trainers that are hard on their horses - both in dressage and campdrafting. But I also know of others who you'd think are pretty rough bushies who put just as much care and attention into their horses as the most precious dressage queen :)


http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h5/Cateh/horsebar1.gif

Horse sense - something that horses have that stops them betting on humans.