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rodh
25-10-07, 02:42 AM
There is little point in eradicating EI if there is a high risk of it being introduced again. In this post I want to discuss how things could be made more secure in the future.
I do not want to discuss why or how Equine Influenza entered Australia or escaped from Quarantine. These issues will come out in the findings of the Callinan Inquiry which we look forward to with interest.
The protocols used by AQIS have not been substantially altered in the past decade. We need to ensure that imported horses do not develop EI in Australia.
In the past AQIS has required that horses have been vaccinated but have allowed the use of vaccines that we have always known were largely ineffective. The horses that brought EI into Australia and those that developed EI were all stated to have been vaccinated with a killed vaccine. On the basis of information supplied by AQIS horses vaccinated with ProteqFlu did not get flu in ECQS. Obviously the first thing we should do is to insist on vaccination with ProteqFlu.
Secondly we need to know whether any horse imported into Australia is actually infected. AQIS have relied on temperature records to check for the presence of disease. Elevated temperature is some indication of disease but hardly specific for EI, particularly in horses that have been vaccinated. Previously AQIS have bled the horses on arrival but have put the bloods into a refrigerator. Blood tests are not able to differentiate positive serology due to vaccination from infection.
With the technology now developed and available at the Elizabeth Macarthur Agricultural Institute (EMAI) we can test nasal swabs for presence of virus with PCR tests overnight. We should require negative PCR tests on all horses prior to them boarding the plane, on arrival and prior to release from quarantine.
These two measures of improved technology, introduced in addition to the other safeguards in our Quarantine policy, will make Australia secure against the introduction of EI.

Cheeky Chappers
25-10-07, 02:53 AM
Rod,

I couldn't agree more. As a person who follows the rules my horse was vaccinated against equine flu in UK. He has been in quarantine in UK for 12 weeks now, has passed nasal swabs etc but still wasn't allowed to fly because the rules on the length of time between latest booster and flying was changed whilst he was in quarantine. I'm broke (pleasure horse, not racing or performance)with the extra costs this has incurred BUT, if it helps in some small way I'm happy to have done my bit.

Kann
25-10-07, 03:19 AM
I don't know alot about how our quarentine system works and I am sure that some interesting facts will come out at the inquiry and hopefully changes will come. One thing that did strike me as odd is how in some countries Shuttle stallions can under go their pre-entry quarantine period on a private property and not in their countries approved quarentine facility like other horses have to. Why is that? and how safe is that practice.

And yep I totally agree with you Rod on the type of vaccine used as being a concern. Inactivated vaccines have not been updated in the past 3 years and some other counties do have concerns about continuing with their use and are looking for alternatives like GM recombinant vaccines or the 'live intranasal vaccines' that are becoming more popular in countries such as America. Although, I can understand why we are not at this point looking at the use of Live I.N vaccines here and why they maybe not good in a quarentine situation.

mcphermw
25-10-07, 03:23 AM
oh Rod PLEASE EXPLAIN
Why are people saying Q was different for racehorses?

Why has it taken this disaster to decide we suddenly knew the killed vaccines were ineffective???? Where was all the expertise then?

Dont hide behind the Callinan enquiry! You're the great blogging expert!

Do the thoroughbreds want anything to do with you or the DPI???

Come on!

Don't sit there for 2 hours formulating your response!

Dont worry the Callinan enquiry will be having a good look at all of this and the class action layers will want to know who was dissembling for the government too.

bindi123
25-10-07, 03:29 AM
*The protocols used by AQIS have not been substantially altered in the past decade*.

Why the hell not. It was reported that $616million was spent in August 07 on improvements to quarantine facilities in response to the Japanese flu outbreak.

*We need to ensure that imported horses do not develop EI in Australia*.

Gee RodH, thats a bit late isn't it, why not before they enter Australia?

*In the past AQIS has required that horses have been vaccinated but have allowed the use of vaccines that we have always known were largely ineffective*.

So with knowledge 'you' allowed the use of 'useless' vaccine, contributory negligence perhaps here? And has every EI vaccine manufacturer been notified of this lapse in their product immune status? What time frame are you speaking of here.....the last lot where it was proven that they received vaccine from the same batch of 'spoiled' vaccines?

*The horses that brought EI into Australia and those that developed EI were all stated to have been vaccinated with a killed vaccine. On the basis of information supplied by AQIS horses vaccinated with ProteqFlu did not get flu in ECQS. Obviously the first thing we should do is to insist on vaccination with ProteqFlu.*

Could you tell us how many horses have entered Australia after being vaccinated with the 'killed vaccine' that have tested POSITIVE to EI?
Lets say in the last five years? a)How many horses entered Australia, B) and how many vaccinated with killed vaccine, c) and how many of those tested POSITIVE for EI?

So why the big push now for ProteqFlu RodH? Just what isn't being told here. Micro-shipping and associated costs to those wanting to vaccinate? Lets see the stats on figures on the above before YOU tell us what we have to demand!

*Secondly we need to know whether any horse imported into Australia is actually infected*.

No RodH. We need to know BEFORE any horse is imported into Australia.

*AQIS have relied on temperature records to check for the presence of disease. Elevated temperature is some indication of disease but hardly specific for EI, particularly in horses that have been vaccinated. Previously AQIS have bled the horses on arrival but have put the bloods into a refrigerator*.

Fridged them...yeah what is so abnormal about that.....perhaps you mean they put them in the fridge on Friday and didn't test them till Monday? Leaving all weekend for a possible EI horse to be hanging around with no absolute controls in place for its 'quarantine'...?

*Blood tests are not able to differentiate positive serology due to vaccination from infection.
With the technology now developed and available at the Elizabeth Macarthur Agricultural Institute (EMAI) we can test nasal swabs for presence of virus with PCR tests overnight. We should require negative PCR tests on all horses prior to them boarding the plane, on arrival and prior to release from quarantine*

Yep this makes great sense RodH, totally agree here........Perhaps you can share with us just how long that 'technology' you refer to has been around and available to us? AND what has this viral disease protocol got to do with us HAVING to have ProteqFlu?????

*These two measures of improved technology, introduced in addition to the other safeguards in our Quarantine policy, will make Australia secure against the introduction of EI*.

No RodH, EI has already been introduced into Australia. The measures you have listed will help in keeping out other biological nasties....
If all horses are adequately tested prior to boarding the plane, and again IMMEDIATELY on arrival, and ALL quarantine protocols followed at AQIS.....nothing should get out again?

REMEMBER RodH just who spread EI into the wider Australian horse community.....that is HOW did it get OUT of AQIS......???????

If an exotic disease came into AQIS.....well OK thats a quarantine facility.....bit like a Supermax prison hey.........? You want that it STAYS in there until that individual horse or horses are FREE....
Or don't I know the meaning of a Quarantine Station?

Cheers,
Bindi

Kann
25-10-07, 03:37 AM
>*The protocols used by AQIS have not been substantially
>altered in the past decade*.
>
>Why the hell not. It was reported that $616million was
>spent in August 07 on improvements to quarantine facilities
>in response to the Japanese flu outbreak.
>

Bindi - $616 million is the figure that has been spent on quarentine upgrades in the past 3 years and it was a response to protect us against FMD there was NO further upgrades announced in August due to the outbreak of flu in Japan!

wallvale
25-10-07, 03:37 AM
My horse was in quarantine when the EI broke out - as far as I know he was vaccinated with the supposed to be ineffective killed vaccine. So why didn't he get a raised temp or cough or sniffles like the Shuttle stallions???

Also - I am totally depressed at the moment because at last nights Gloucester Dpi meeting I was humiliated by the Tocal Livestock Officer running the meeting.
So anyone who are intending to go to the meeting tonight at Cessnock - BEWARE - the Dpi want to make anyone who dares to speak up and ask questions (I was not allowed to explain myself) to look very foolish.

mayville lodge
25-10-07, 03:47 AM
I think I'm getting the drift of the next BS campaign that we are going to have to endure - the killed vaccine is no good and THAT'S why you plebs can't get access to it. It's for your own good. Let's face it, take away the favoritism given to thoroughbreds in the quarantine system, and the amazingly lax bio-security measures at Eastern Creek, WE WOULDN'T HAVE EI NOW. Perhaps AQIS or the DPI have become the advertising front for proteqflu, it certainly is starting to sound like an advertising campaign.

mcphermw
25-10-07, 03:52 AM
Rodh

TAKE YOUR CRUDDY PSUEDOSCIENCE AND YOUR HORSE COUNCIL AND YOUR DPI AND STICK IT UP YOUR


Are you the one appointed to try and cut the cyberspacers off at the pass???

Whats with your stupid rhetorical questions that you answer yourself? Trying to find out what's going on amongst the poor ignorant fools affected by this?

DAMAGE CONTROL...

wallvale
25-10-07, 03:54 AM
Exactly Mayville Lodge - as soon as I spoke up about the killed vaccine, I was told that I was not to be the only person to ask questions and I should be quiet. And I will not be allowed to speak for the rest of the meeting. ( I was actually the first one to ask a question and it was the only one I wanted answered. )

mcphermw
25-10-07, 04:06 AM
hey Rodh you've really stuffed up "admitting" that killed vaccine were so ineffective that it let EI get out of quarantine to infect Australia.

Lets face it it was quarantine that was ineffective! What advice were you giving them on behalf of the the great recreationals before this..? Surely with the enormous expertise you are showing on this plebs blog you would have known all of this beforehand?

either that or theres some really Machiavellian agenda going on here

they can't be too bad, the rest of the world has been relying on them for decdaes

oh crap im going to town to get some halters to keep the fly veils on

bindi123
25-10-07, 04:23 AM
Here you go Kann,

****Australia monitoring Japan's equine flu outbreak
Posted Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:33pm AEST


Leading Japanese racehorses should be able to race in Australia as long as they have not been to stables or racetracks where horses had been identified with equine influenza, a minister says.

The Japan Racing Association cancelled horse races last weekend for the first time in 35 years at the Kokura, Niigata and Sapporo racecourses in order to prevent fresh outbreaks.

The association said last Friday that 29 out of the 163 horses who were to take part in the weekend races were infected.

The health scare resonates in Australia where Japanese horses Delta Blues and Pop Rock, who finished first and second in the 2006 Melbourne Cup, are due to enter quarantine in the next two weeks ahead of November's Cup.

Federal Agriculture Minister Peter McGauran has issued a statement saying Japanese horses should be able to compete in Australia so long as they have not been to a stable, racetrack or other property where infected horses have been identified.

"Equine influenza (EI) is extremely disruptive to horseracing because of the restrictions it places on horse movements required to control the disease," Mr McGauran said.

"EI is highly contagious and can spread rapidly through stables and studs. It has never been present in Australia and poses no human health risks.

"Australia will not take any risks with horses being imported from countries where EI is present.

"There are clearly laid out procedures relating to horses coming into Australia from countries affected by EI. There needs to be at least a two-month gap between when a horse is presented for export, and any possibility of it being exposed to the virus."

Mr McGauran says the Federal Government has spent $616 million over the past three years to strengthen quarantine protection*****


Yep Japan is clearly mentioned here......my wording of "$616million being spent in August was not quiet put right.....I meant the story of federal spending came out in response to Japan's Flu Outbreak.

Cheers,
Bindi

Kann
25-10-07, 04:49 AM
Hmmm funny how diffrent articles say diffrent things or perhapes our federal Minister is not quite sure why the $616million has been spent..here on his very own website he claims it was in response to FMD

AQIS investment pays dividends

The Australian Governmentís massive $616 million investment to strengthen quarantine protection over the past three years has allowed Australia to immediately implement a comprehensive response to Britainís latest Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD) outbreak.
http://www.maff.gov.au/releases/07/07112pm.html

Centaur
25-10-07, 05:31 AM
To be honest I stopped being able to follow these threads some time ago and have resorted to speed reading and just skimming some of these very long and heavy posts. So I apologise in advance...but can bindi or mcph...(can't remember the spelling) please explain in 10 words or less exactly what they want from the AHIC? Your posts are long, convoluted and in some cases just seem like an attack on rodh and I am not quite sure what he's done apart from try and keep us informed of what is going on. I get the feeling that whatever he says now you guys are just going to go off regardless. I can understand the frustration, but I think it might be getting in the way of a reasoned conversation perhaps???
"Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say"

liet1
25-10-07, 06:40 AM
Like you skimming but I think the problem is why is rodh posting at all - topics like vaccination are actually quite political. And quarantine apart from the obvious failure not terribly relevant to the current situation and the general horse owner.

When you get to the heart of it the type of vacination being used is why we the general public can't vaccinate our horses. Hence the feeling of frustration. What AHIC should be doing is being the representative of the horse people and pushing most peoples quite obvious desire for more information on topics such as where exactly is the virus (the suburb, town), how many horses have died, how many horses currently infected, how many no longer infected and when exactly are our horses going to be vaccinated if that remains a possibility. Additional aspects would be say in QLD the reinstatement of the $200.00 vetinary rebate for Vet fees incurred as a result of EI. This for example was removed with the last lot of assistance packages.

So my point is why right now do we care about quarantine its failed and we have this. Sorry its more than 10 words :D

Cheers

MichelleH
25-10-07, 06:51 AM
Whilst we do need to spend every second fighting the disease and this outbreak, we also have to make some time to consider future directions. We don't want to find ourselves to the same or worse position in the future because we have not considered all the options as the decisions are being made!
Hard to get our head around all these issues at once, but it is just something that needs to be done. We don't want to wake up one day and find ourselves with a cumbersome, expensive solution that is worse than the actual outbreak!!

bindi123
25-10-07, 06:57 AM
Centaur. 10 words or less. I'll try.

I don't want anything from the AHIC. I don't know RodH, nor had ever heard of him before seeing his posts on here as (what looks like)media liason officer for the DPI.

What do I want: I want vaccine. I want what the TB people got. I would prefer not paying for it. If I have to pay I want the version that the rest of the world love to death or I'd like the you-beaut Aussie trialed one at the same price. I wouldn't like to microchip my stay at home mares, but am happy to chip my comp horses.....heck they get DNA'd, HERDA tested, they may as well have something inserted. I would like vaccine within the next 2 weeks.

I don't care where it comes from, which group facilitates it, what country it was made in, or if the/a vet has to do it, or if I can.

Just let me have the same rights to protect my horses as the people who own Thoroughbreds and I'll be mighty happy.

RodH seems to be regurgating the DPI drivel, but it would be great to see him put into words what HIS organisation IS going to get us?

Yes RodH, just what are you going to get us and when?
Could we maybe have your directives posted? Not propaganda designed to convince us that what THEY WANT to give us is the right thing.



Cheers,
Bindi a bit more than 10 words.

Centaur
25-10-07, 06:58 AM
LOL...well I stopped reading after 10....
But seriously...you ask why rodh is posting at all and then in the next paragraph say that people are frustrated with not getting enough information. I get an email from the AHIC twice a day at least, updating the latest figures, zones etc. To be honest I don't read every word. But rodh does come on here voluntarily and there are some that seem hell bent on beating him up and I'm just not sure why. If quarantine procedures are being improved beacuse of this, thats good and surely everyone should want to hear about it. I really can see where people's frustrations are coming from. I'm just not sure the AHIC (and rodh as it's representative)is the appropriate whipping boy?

liet1
25-10-07, 07:29 AM
Centaur true kind of but I did mention what I thought AHIC and Rodh could do to help. Sorry for being a bit long (again) but most of Rodh info is almost exactly the same as DPI info hense the cynicism. 42 words I'm getting better oops 52. Just trying to explain

Kann
25-10-07, 07:42 AM
I don't see anything wrong with discussing quarentine issues, I think it is quite an interesting topic and if other people are not interested then that is fine, not everyone has to participate and there are quite a few other threads that people have started to plead their case for vaccinations.

Shell001
25-10-07, 08:05 AM
I am quiet disgusted at some of the posts to this thread.

Rod would be the most qualified people in Australia to discuss the EI virus including any concerns that people of the broader equine community face.

Anyone who has ever had anything to do with Rod knows that he is in no way bias towards any governing body or has any type of hidden agenda. A majority of the work that he does is volunteer work which he does to help all of us in the equine community and the Horse Industry Council is desperatley trying to help all horse owners.

I don't think now is the time for people in the community to be nit picking rather we should all be pulling together and trying to obtain as much "correct" and "useful" information as we can as we are basically all in the same boat.

So many people have lost their jobs or their businesses are in serious trouble, a number of people have lost horses and foals. I myself have an older mare who is now recovering from Phenmonia after contracting EI a month dispite the biosecurity measures in place one could remotely think of.

I find it rather amusing at some of the posts from people who obviously think they know what they are talking about but in realty don't or have listened to so-called "experts". Just take advise from the people who are "qualified" to give it.

To any of those who have lost a horse or foal my heart goes out to you.

bindi123
25-10-07, 08:23 AM
I haven't found anything in the posts from RodH that couldn't be found in releases from the DPI.

His information is nearly the same actually.

What we have just seen though is his belief that eradication (remembering the true defination of eradicate is GONE FOR GOOD) is possible and that vaccination should only be done with the U-Beaut one for now.

But if EI hits the fan then he has said he will support mass vaccinations with the killed over the counter, widely used, international, cheaper to buy, Fort Dodge or similar one.

I have no choice but to wait and see who wins......EI or Eradicate....now seems only 'EI' will get me my vaccine though....LOL

Cheerier,
Bindi

Centaur
25-10-07, 08:46 AM
OK bindi. I think I get it now *phew*!
Can I ask what associations you belong to then bindi? Just as a matter of interest.
"Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say"

Centaur
25-10-07, 08:53 AM
...sorry, forgot something
the fact that Rod's info is the same as the DIP's, why is that a cause for cynism? What he/AHIC are doing is passing on the information so that the average horse owner is up to date with what's going on. As the DPI are the ones running the show isn't it obvious that it will be their media releases and info that gets passed on? Am I just oversimplefying here?
EI has gotten away from us. Don't eradictaion and vaccination as a cntingency plan go hand in hand now anyway?

mayville lodge
25-10-07, 09:20 AM
The trouble is that rods "balanced and reasonable" discussion isn't that at all. The DPI & AHA has stuffed this up with slow reactions and an inability to admit they got it wrong. And the AHIC is supposed to be OUR representatives to the relevant authorities, not the DPI's mouthpiece for propoganda. If the AHIC is making enthusiastic representations to the authorities for the need for vaccines for horses in the red and purple zones, great, I just haven't seen any evidence of it. And they certainly have been absolutely useless in the Qld cause. And in every one of rods posts he stresses why the killed vaccine is no good. Well I haven't seen the rest of the world shut down indefinately.

Shell001
25-10-07, 09:55 AM
I cant believe the amount of people out there that act like a bunch of old spinsters with nothing else to do but to bad mouth other people and pretend they know more than they do.

Stop being negetive about people who are genuinely trying to help. Not everyone has hidden agendas.

There are "qualified" people trying to get the information out there to has many people as possible by all means available.

I wonder how many of you have qualifications and actually fully understand how all equine viruses work??? My guess not many judging by the responses on these threads.

Shell001
25-10-07, 09:58 AM
Mayville,

Have you lived in the rest of the world through an EI outbreak??? Didnt think so. I would doubt very much if we would here alot about EI outbreaks and consequences here in Australia

mcphermw
25-10-07, 10:08 AM
I have no knowledge of who Rod is except he is a volunteer for "the horse industry council' and he told us his wife works for the DPI.


Evidence of his supposed "liason" role on this thread, and everything that i have seen from the horse council, suggests it is FROM the DPI TO us.

Its hard to put it simply

BUT ADVOCATES FOR AN INDUSTRY OR GROUP DONT ACT AS A MOUTHPIECE FOR THE GOVERNMENT BODY WHICH IS CAUSING THE PROBLEM

IT GOES THE OTHER WAY - that is we tell the government what the problem is and what we want.

Rod can crap on with his rhetorical questions till the cows come home but there is absolutely nothing published by the horse council or Rodh on this blog to suggest or support the notion that he is advocating for the horse owners.

I find it particularly annoying that he is seeming sometimes to position himself as over-riding other well-established breed organisations and especially the EFA

He chooses to ignore the issues/questions about the thoroughbreds.He wont answer valid criticism. If he cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.Hes put himself in a political position (albeit without being elected) and I dont cop the "only trying to do my best" crap when peoples' lives are being destroyed. He's changing his stance evry time the DPI does.

There is NO WAY this lot should be "representing horse owners".

if people cant see that well I give up

mayville lodge
25-10-07, 10:08 AM
No I haven't lived in the rest of the world, but I have talked to lots of people who have, vets, breeders, competitors. People who have no idea what the problem is - just vaccinate. I have had access to the emails of the all the disgruntled vets who disagree with the approach that has been taken. And I am on the front line with EI descending when 8 weeks ago the DPI was telling me it was that everything was under control and vaccination was not an option.

josie
25-10-07, 10:11 AM
I appreciate rodh coming on here and putting his head out there to get slammed :). Whilst the information may be the same as the DPI is drivelling, at least he is putting himself forward here which is more than the DPI is doing.

I think too that the opinions, issues and concerns being put forward here by other posters are very good, even if done so in a 'passionate' manner.

When I read rodh's posts I wonder if I am being told what is best or being asked in a round about way for feedback? Is it a case of "here is what we are thinking ... please provide feedback"? If so, perhaps it could be presented as such. If no feedback is being sought then I still don't understand the point of AHIC. If feedback is being sought, hell they have sold me. I will join!

With regards to vaccine. I read a post on another forum, directed from this forum about the requirement that GM vaccines are supposed to go through 175 days of testing on native fauna prior to use in the country. If this is true, then this one has not had that testing and I have serious concerns about its widespread use here.

mayville lodge
25-10-07, 10:12 AM
Couldn't agree more Mcphermw. Rod with his propoganda speeches has done more to destroy my faith in the AHIC than anything.

Runaround
25-10-07, 10:12 AM
Shell,
Maybe you can enlighten everyone that are concerned?;)

josie
25-10-07, 10:14 AM
mcphermw

Don't give up. I am appreciating the thought and feedback you are providing!

Runaround
25-10-07, 10:27 AM
I'm afraid I can't help hearing alarm bells going off...anyone else hear them?

I think basically what people want to know is whether Rod is working for the DPI in a voluntary or paid situation. If this is the case well it's no good for the Non Racing Community...as the DPI seem to be no more than the Governments puppets, working to protect the interest of the government.

I just feel sorry for the ones that are really going to suffer in the short and long term...What do the government care if some of these get lost along the way? The answer to this is they don't.

Centaur
25-10-07, 10:33 AM
>There is NO WAY this lot should be "representing horse
>owners".
>
>if people cant see that well I give up

So who do you think should be representing horse owners? Have you joined up with the AHIC in order to get things changed or make a contribution? Which industry body represents you?

shakyl
25-10-07, 10:37 AM
I found this on a Blog(very interesting)!!

We should not be surprised, a little research on the AHIC website states the following: "During the recent outbreak, the role of the AHIC has been to ensure that the voice of the recreational horse industry has been represented effectively at both a national and state level. Representation has included the following: Direct representation by the AHIC President, Dr Barry Smyth, on the Consultative Committee on Emergency Animal Disease (CCEAD) and National Management Group (NMG), the primary Federal Government response groups on EI;

DR BARRY SMYTH
 President: His clinical interests are in Thoroughbred racetrack practice, He is now in Thoroughbred racetrack practice based at Flemington."

WHAT HOPE DO WE HAVE WHEN THOSE WHO ARE REPRESENTING US ARE BASED AT THE FLEMINGTON RACETRACK? YOU WOULD PRESUME THE CONCERNS OF VICTORIAN RACING MAY HAVE A BIT MORE WEIGHT THAN A SMALL PONY CLUB THAT CAN'T HOLD RALLIES OR THE LOCAL SADDLERY GOING BROKE!!!???

bindi123
25-10-07, 10:40 AM
Centaur I belong to the AQHA, ASHS, NSWSBSA, HRNSW, And a number of American ones.

I'm a long-time ago research librarian, horse owner, breeder, competitor (trainers), mum bla bla bla...

Does that qualify me to ask for vaccine?

God I hope so.......LOL

As for RodH coming on here to pass on the info from the DPI?

Heck I get any number of updates sent to my computer, why would I want one from someone stating they are 'working for me' and only delivering what the other one hasn't, won't and never had any intention of doing?

The AHIC is now trying to drum up support by telling us (and having surveys) that they are going to be our voice. If they were our voice they arn't shouting loud enough, and where were they when the EFA managed to get vaccine for a number of its members?

If the AHIC were my voice are they asking for vaccine for me.

No......they are so far up the garden path with the DPI still trumpeting eradication!! *duck flying pink fat thing*

Does anyone flag waving eradication really know what they word means?

Eradication: Gone, finished, never to return, finito, like it was before.

No other country in the world has done it?

What another field trail........?

Cheers,
Bindi

Centaur
25-10-07, 11:06 AM
Have any of those organisations done anything about representaion for you bindi?

mcphermw
25-10-07, 11:41 AM
oh no Rodh's racked off and started another thread again!!!

My daughter who's debated for her school at state level she gets it from me just loves my newfound blogging hobby! It gives her free rein (notice all my horsey puns!) on the TV!

Just how about the Dr Barry Smythe thing LOL! Personally I say without the thoroughbreds we would be done for!

Look Rod this fun playing chasies between all the blogs! Horse deals is definitely more politically correct! Maybe you should stay there.

What did the thoroughbreds say to "the questionaire"????????????????

rodh
25-10-07, 12:12 PM
I don't expect some people to believe the information that I provide but all I can do is provide the best possible information available.
Those of you that know me will accept it in the way it is given. Much of the stuff that I have written has also been used by the DPI in its daily updates. I'm not doing this to satisfy some DPI spin - it is to give you, the interested horse owner, the information straight from the decision makers.

It is not always easy being in the middle because there are potential conflicts of interest. I am not always able to express my views through the DPI. Sometimes my information is viewed as not appropriate for the DPI to send out. For example you will never find the post that heads this thread in any DPI updates. It was considered a bit controversial for the DPI to circulate.

The NSW DPI uses the AHIC's HECD network to disseminate its updates. The DPI funded the HECD so obviously it would use that channel. The Qld DPI chose not to use the AHIC database and set up its own. How is the information from Qld?

Just because the DPI uses AHIC to spread its updates doesn't mean the DPI and AHIC always see eye to eye. The AHIC got severely criticised for sending an email asking horse owners to contact the NSW Minister to complain about favouritism given to TBs. The AHIC circulated the personal mobile numbers of the NSW Minister and his Chief of Staff. That might have been a trifle unfortunate and caused huge flak but got the message through after the Minister got calls after midnight. Evidently the Minister's office received 5000 emails on the subject. Since then the Minister has been careful to include the non racing sectors in discussions. He meets with representatives from about 10 major non racing groups tomorrow to discuss progress and getting organisations back to competition.

The decision makers at NSW DPI are very much concerned with getting information about the horse industry. They have staffed the industry liaison group with an average of four people with differing horse backgrounds. I'm not going to name these people but many of you know who is involved. They are doing a great job with your interests very much in mind. They are frequently consulted about issues.

I have chosen to provide information on forums such as this. NSW DPI has undertaken to conduct over 40 meetings in 2 weeks in response to community demand for information. This is a huge undertaking and it is true the DPI has had difficulty getting people to address these meetings. DPI staff numbers are stretched to the limit. Everyone wants decision makers to come to their local meeting but a simple bit of maths suggests that this will never be possible. Three vets acting in the CVO role cannot attend all 40 meetings although they had done what they can. Their main role is to be available for decision making - some of these meetings are at Sydney or Melbourne. The DPI has done the best it can to provide information at these meetings. I felt that it was necessary to provide the same sort of information in forums for those not able to attend meetings in person.

bindi123
25-10-07, 12:30 PM
Centaur at this time no single association (other than the harness ones obviously) have done anything pro-active.

The AQHA I believe through its hat in the ring with the EFA.....and well we are know where the EFA stand........along side itself....lol

RodH I think its great that you have made yourself available to provide information, however, repeating what already appears elsewhere is doing little good.

How about telling us the AHIC initiatives?

Like just what are you campaiging for on our behalf?

Again.....vaccine?

More compensation?

More grants?

More assistance?

Maybe something like the Harness Racing NSW did.....a once off $500 breeding bonus for registered breeders...to encourage mares to be bred this season?
I thought that was a sensational initiative so that the foal crop (yes Mr Messara other people sometimes use that word...lol) would not be down too much for 2008.

Just an idea.

Bindi

imported_bill
25-10-07, 12:36 PM
I was asked by Rod for permission to use our forums as a communication tool. A great deal of misinformation is being put about on our forums and others by people who are not really qualified to comment.

A few minutes of conversation with Rod has convinced me that he has many points worth making, which are not getting about from the "official" press releases.

For instance, all the graphs showing infected properties and numbers of infected horses show the number constantly rising. However with an average duration of 2-3 weeks infection, anyone can see that those affected in late August are well and truly over it by now.

The real number to look at is the number of new infections which is now down to less than 20 properties a day in NSW. The few outbreaks beyond previously defined areas have been quickly jumped on and the overall infected area has hardly grown at all in the past two weeks.

So I am satisfied that containment plus vaccination with what is a very effective vaccine is doing its job.

Interference at the Federal level has had an affect on both the availability of vaccine plus its distribution which as we all know was firstly to the racing industry. Rod comes from an equestrian background and you can see he was part of the AHIC campaign to embarrass the Federal Minister into making the vaccine available more widely.

The 500,000 extra live vaccine doses that have been ordered by the Federal government are way more than will be needed by the racing industry. Guess where they will be going?

So give the bloke a go. He has the interests of equestrians at heart and is not a stooge for the racing industry.

Centaur
25-10-07, 12:59 PM
Man, it's hard to please the horse world!

You (when I say 'you' I am talking a generic 'you' here which covers all who wish to throw rocks at the Rod & AHIC)want him to stop repeating what is already written elsewhere and yet many claim to have never heard anything about the AHIC despite their publicity within our industry. If he stops posting you will probably complain that we are being kept in the dark again!

You don't want to join up with this mob because you don't see them as representative of 'us', and yet you want them to go to bats for us in the 'fight' against the government for recognition and compensation.
So, they need to prove themselves before they get your support...and yet they need your support to be more effective in proving themselves. But you'd be quite happy to accept any 'wins' that they gain for us in the meantime.

You are dismayed that the AHIC also represents the TB industry and yet we need the 'clout' of the TB industry to help support the whole horse industry because the rest of us are fragmented into small groups, (and often apathetic). I think the point of the AHIC is to band us all together so that we have some strength and support from each other, yes TB's included.

You can't have a say in what goes on unless you join in, not because anyone is stopping you but because you are not giving yourself a voice. It's no good shouting 'rhubarb, rhubarb' from the sidelines. Why can't we see this?
I really, really don't get it!!

bindi123
25-10-07, 01:30 PM
Having been vocal on this forum re EI, I guess the wrist slapping probably is intended for people like me.....lol

And I can take a wrist slapping. I do appreciate that RodH has had the goolies to appear even in the face of disapproval, but I am sure he would have considered that some would question either his timing or his motives.

Incidently I had heard of the AHIC. I wondered in the every early days where they were as far as spotlight.....I however do not think that the racing sector need too many more knights in armour. Their State armies are very strong, have their own consultants, media spokes people, advisors ect ect......I don't think they have the need for the services of AHIC.....though they are entitled to use and contribute to the same.

Bit like asking someone who's eaten lobster if they like anymore caviar to go with that......just how much assistance can one sector eat (er need).

Its the ones that have little voices that need to be heard. They do not have the empassioned radio announcer (soz AJ) and other retailer moguls to name drop and make representation, hell but they don't have many resources much at all. Yet their little corner of the universe, their breeding heritage, their horsey livelihoods are going up in smoke and they are asking "Who's helping me"

And well might ask why would the AHIC want to be my voice? How can one association or group be the voice for both the getters and the needers? And that is a great question too? Just how can they?

How can one group pacify the big players and be doing the right thing by the little bloke at the same time?
I'm yet to see someone win and the other one win too? In racing, and in everything.

Some people get in first, some come in next and others don't get a look in. LIFE. The don't all win.

The only win is when equality dictates it.......it appears on the table at the same time, same height, same everything........for everyone to grab.

If RodH can supply that equality, that the voices will be at equal volume, that benefits of any kind including vaccines, financial assistance and consultation then he will have my full support and I will thank him quickly.

But after what has been demonstrated by the haste and tactics of RacingNSW, I am yet to see or believe that anyone could have the "Might & Power" (pun yes) to gain absolute on-the-table-full-on-no-them &-us equality in the face of this crisis.

RodH I wish you the best of luck.......

Cheers,
Bindi

Kann
25-10-07, 02:08 PM
>
>But after what has been demonstrated by the haste and
>tactics of RacingNSW, I am yet to see or believe that anyone
>could have the "Might & Power" (pun yes) to gain absolute
>on-the-table-full-on-no-them &-us equality in the face of
>this crisis.
>

Perhaps not in the face of this crisis but what about the next one, there are other horse diseases out there that may come in the future and a precedent may now have been set but who is going to lay down next time and just take it...not I thats for sure! Imagine a few years down the track and a huge percentage of recreational horses are dying from West Nile while the dam TB's are getting vaccinated first again. Be buggered!! we need to find a way to stop that happening...

rodh
25-10-07, 02:10 PM
Bindi
I wrote an email early in this outbreak that said "All horses are equally susceptible, all owners believe their horses are equally valuable". I can promise you that that is what the DPI believes. That is what the AHIC is working from. Thats why we got so angry about the federal intervention in favour of racing.

There is no way we can control a disease that creates epidemics if only 20% of horses are vaccinated. This where the racing sector are in error. They will not be able to get the other 80% vaccinated either voluntarily or compulsorily. Eradication is still the best option for Australia plus better quarantine laws.

Sure we represent TBs as well but we demand equity. There has to be a link between benefits and costs. The current situation has the average battler covering 80% of costs but the benefits going to the privileged 20%. AHIC is still working on correcting this. Watch this space.

Centaur
25-10-07, 02:16 PM
Rod, I admire your tenacity. I am bashing my head on my pc here!
bindi, have you read the AHIC website? Particularly the 'who are we and what do we do' bits? I suggest you do.
In the meantime, they're all your Rod and I second that...best of luck!


"Teamwork is a lot of people doing what I say"

mindari
25-10-07, 02:34 PM
>I think I'm getting the drift of the next BS campaign that
>we are going to have to endure - the killed vaccine is no
>good and THAT'S why you plebs can't get access to it. It's
>for your own good. Let's face it, take away the favoritism
>given to thoroughbreds in the quarantine system, and the
>amazingly lax bio-security measures at Eastern Creek, WE
>WOULDN'T HAVE EI NOW. Perhaps AQIS or the DPI have become
>the advertising front for proteqflu, it certainly is
>starting to sound like an advertising campaign.




So
I gather you dont know that EI didnt just escape via some ultra careless human to just maitland? full stop end of story.

NOT SO.

it also floated out and infected the agistment properties around eastern creek within hours/days of the infected stallion shedding virus.

Eastern Creek is nothing but a glorified agistment facility.

any thing capable of dispursement by air, birds, insects of any kind, lizards u name it can spread it without any humans involved.

Eastern Creek is SMAK DAB IN THE MIDDLE OF HUNDREDS OF HORSES AND CATTLE WITHIN CLOSE PROXIMITY OF IT.

I was told at the DPI meeting this will all come out in the enquiry?

To my mind that would have to be cover up fast as possible unless they want to see it recommended that eastern creek be shut down?

At those meetings they stress personal biosecurity till you could scream. so i asked how close to a horse do you have to be to pass on the virus if its one you.

the bloody horse has to sniff u!

yet they are finally admitting is carried in the air from 2 to 8 k's!

If an infected animal arrives in eastern creek the infection is going to get out again whatever it is if wind or insect spread is part of its repitoire.


sandy

bindi123
25-10-07, 03:27 PM
I think Mr V'Landys said (?) that 70% of horses in Australia would be 'required' to guarantee the immunity for the racing sector......now calculating that race horses make up 20% of the horse population, that means 'he' needs another 50%........I expect that might just make up the vast majority of all sport/competition horses in this country. Between the campdrafters, western horses, showjumpers, dressage horses ect ect.....every show horse in the country.

So I would think getting that required 70% would be quiet easy?

Considering again 'his' strong stance and calls for a national EI vaccination strategy and the ears he has across the country, knowing his tenacity, I damn well think he'll probably get it......with so many influencial people with huge interests, who probably support a political party or two, who can blame the back-scratchers....

I think from memory that Quebec 2001 they had an outbreak and jumped right in with using the nasal spray? They didn't wait to zone and contain, they effectively got their eradication by snorting quickly, strategically?
I can't remember the details......

I'm afraid I'm all out of debate, and am now, not only waiting for 2 new foals but for EI to arrive, in the hottest most humid time of the year, I got my foal insurance done and forms for the other 2 expected, have tried to prepare as best we can......and each night I throw my arms around my 22 year old princess, the absolute light of my life, I whisper to her that EI won't get her......emotive yes........it is a very real threat for the young and older horses....and she already has health issues that we pay for.......our other old girl 24 surrendered to Cushings earlier in the year and it cost us close to $300 a month in Pergolide for 2 years, they're not just horses ........especially for people with disabilities!! Now you have my ducks guts.....
I wonder just how many people REALLY understand that emotion....

Bindi

MichelleH
25-10-07, 03:43 PM
Love that soft underbelly, Bindi!

I am feeling mine tonight, as I have had a hectic couple of days trying to organise vaccines in the purple zone. The stress and emotion that people are feeling is frightening (how awful must war be, if we can get so worked up about horses "catching cold"?).

And I am feeling your frustration, as we have PERMISSION (loosely speaking) to vaccinate and still can't seem to get our hands on these mythical beasts!

mindari
25-10-07, 03:57 PM
Boy Rod.
Did you hit the nail on the head there.

yes the govt intends taxing the crap out of us to pay for their little eradication plan. our share 80 percent.

our receipt, f all.

I got to the stage of wishing ever TB in the continent dead and buried. which is ridiculas. just goes to show how upset raging unfairness can get u.

So cute that they cut the 200 dollar vet bill rebate from 11th october.

have they cut the 55 a day to all racehorses even if they never won a race?

I fear ill have a bill so big i cant jump over it. my useless valueless crap horses still need vet care, drugs well unless i want to turn my back and see who survives without it?

had a real scare today, my wingadee dam of Aenzac was staggering round gagging trying to breathe day 9 into the ei she has to have because she is not important like the vast (what is it? the 60,000 to 70,000) majority of em that have to have EI? except that their mug owners are expected to chip in and recompense the govt. Her son won 9 in Dubai (suppose it doesnt count he and half a dozen of his siblngs took her and his sire to =3rd National endurance sire here in oz) before he won those ones overseas, some worth 1 million USD each.

gave her the drugs and prayed, next step might need a tube into her windpipe apparently my friends vet has done just such an operation to save another mare suffering, HO no not that EI is causing all this distress is it.

hardest of all to stomach was the happiness of the local feed store. all theirs were done 3, or was it 4 weeks ago. hardly a winner among em but they were vaccinated a week before it hit. and so happy, hardly would know they had EI, not one needed vet assistance and recovering great.

nice to know as i watch puss and blood running from misty's nose.

its her fault, she wouldnt be suffering if she made the tab money would have had the jab weeks ago.

Perhaps that is the problem?
We should not be permitted to keep any equine that cant contribute towards the TAB?

sorry rod but anyone who abuses you is probably looking at the same as i am we need to attack. (or explode?)

but who?

the bloody politicans run like rabbits. and yes ive been busy.
hubby will freak when the phone bill gets in.

and yep im writing but hey, who am i fooling these guys wouldnt be in politics if they had anything but a thick skin

and yes rod it was a great idea printing those phone numbers.

my friend carmen had a field day when she actually was called back.

she couldnt belive her luck.


supposed they have changed the numbers now.

do you have the new ones.. please ......................






sandy

dante
25-10-07, 09:48 PM
I think it comes down to TRUST.
Given that we have the AUSVETPLAN that should work, can we rely on the "powers that be" to implement it.
I fervently believed that we could eradicate, up until the buffer zones failed to get the first vaccinations and I realised that the governments first priority was going to be the governments income.
We are heading for a situation where all horses in the racing industry will be vaccinated and racing will resume.
My gut feeling is that although containment and buffer zones are getting on top of the initial outbreak, we will have a succession of "spot fires" after race meetings and eradication is becoming a pipe dream.
I no longer TRUST that the blokes at the fire front will be given the tools and policy to do what they know needs to be done.
This means to me personally, that I should take active steps to ensure the welfare of my horse which means getting him vaccinated as well as keeping him segregated.
Apologies, I'm waffling .

mindari
25-10-07, 11:36 PM
doesnt sound like waffling to me.



hey anyone have the address of the ausvet PLAN?

I for one would like to read it.

one question I would like to know is was it in the ausvet plan that racehorses to the lifeboats(vaccinations)anyway.


Another query is how can the Ausvet Plan be a plan when nothing had been applied for or passed to implement it if ei arrived?

knowing without that a minimum of a month was going to elapse.

That to me is not a plan but more in the line of a "hope".


although perhaps the cattle indusry can take heart.

their cattle will have recovered from foot and mouth before the protocols for the guns and bullets have been passed for import :D



One comfort to those of us caring for the had to be sick.
I am told Makybe Diva and her foal had to take their chances like the rest of ours too. Not even being a racing legend helped protect her.

Weird to say the least. the buffer vaccines hijacked to vaccinate horses some of which we will never see run a place?

Runaround
26-10-07, 05:58 AM
Did I read in a few place that if you take the option of vaccinating at the 2 week interval the immunity only lasts 3 months?

If this is so..3 months isn't that far away for the racehorse needing their booster...wonder what stock pile that will come from?

Kann
26-10-07, 07:34 AM
Runaround - I am in QLD and here the QRL race horses at tracks are getting done a month apart but when they did my horses(on a property with a TB) the vet said it would be around 2 weeks apart for my horses, then the 3rd at 4 months. I dunno whether or not individual vets are making the time frame decisions on their clients horses or what. I have read that horses can sometimes need the reactivating 3rd injection 3 months the 2nd one. NSW I think are doing the 2 week thing but I got no idea on the time frame they have planned for 3rd injection.

I did read a while ago they had already ordered enough ProteqFlu to be here in time for the 3rd round.

Runaround
26-10-07, 07:58 AM
Yes about up there Kann...I wonder how much the racing Authority will need out of the future batch and what will be the balance for the rest of the horse community.
And also aren't the other states waiting for their hand outs as well...
Be sure interesting to watch how this pans out.

rodh
26-10-07, 08:04 AM
>DR BARRY SMYTH
 President: His clinical interests are in Thoroughbred racetrack practice, He is now in Thoroughbred racetrack practice based at Flemington."

There is no-one more angry than Barry at the way the non racing people have been treated. I haven't got any correspondence here - I'll copy some quotes from his letters on this blog later.

He doesn't think the Vic TB needed vaccination.