View Full Version : John Size

26-05-00, 08:18 AM
I find it extremely interesting that John Size, with such a strong team, hasn't taken a runner interstate for the carnivals - Brisbane, Melbourne or Adelaide. Can anybody tell me why or have any theories?

26-05-00, 08:36 AM
Perhaps his horses arnt ready at the right time. Perhaps his owners feel there is enough prize money to be won at home without all the big guns. And perhaps he doesnt want to risk travel sickness. There are many good horses now out in the paddock waiting for the Spring as many of the QLD carniavl horses tend to miss the Spring. Just my theories.

Bill S.
26-05-00, 12:11 PM
I get the feeling that John's success has been in giving his horses very individual attention. The only way you can do that if your horses travel interstate is to travel with them, which means the horses at home get looked after by a foreman or strapper. Maybe John is still building up that aspect of his team and isn't willing to risk the wheels falling off while he's not around.

26-05-00, 02:12 PM
Yes 1 & 2 postings, spot on. Why would he want to take his eye off the ball.
We recently sent a horse to John, and he currently has about 80 in work. That is obviously his focus and quite rightly so.
Our horse had only been there a few days & he made sure he rode it work to get a feel of it, as he does all his horses.

27-05-00, 03:25 AM
You seem to forget he took horses to Melbourne last Spring and who was keeping the eye on the 80 horses then. And does he give every one of those 80 horses his undivided attention and ride them all work. Come on.

29-05-00, 03:26 PM
Just wanting to know who were the horses he took to Melbourne and how did they go?


30-05-00, 02:57 AM
Yeah sure David, he rides every single horse work every morning. C,mon???
His wife is also a fine horsewoman from the Begg family.
Read the post correctly, he rides all horses at some stage to get a feel for them. this is obviously becoming more of a task as his string grows, but he is still in amongst it, not training from the telephone like some others.

30-05-00, 01:52 PM
And Looksthgoods you know all this from Melbourne town.

31-05-00, 12:51 AM
Oh, that's right David, Melbourne is so far away from Sydney, none of us here could possibly have any idea what is going on!! especially those of us involved in the industry.

31-05-00, 02:52 AM
So, Xolent - What is going on?

31-05-00, 03:29 AM
Hey Larry, are you & David the same person?

31-05-00, 07:50 AM

We are definately not the same person. I'm still waiting for David to give me Size's runners in Melbourne last year.

31-05-00, 12:23 PM
Upon looking up some old race books from Flemington, Kidmans Cove and Sorrento.I wonder was he training his Sydney string by phone.

31-05-00, 12:50 PM
Thanks for the Melbourne info.

Kidman's Cove could never gallop the Melbourne way of going, and Sorrento won a big fillies and mares race.

Am I right in saying that Sorrento's win was her only start in Melbourne and may have only gone down a couple days before the race.

01-06-00, 04:51 AM
I don't think bringing a horse down for a night race, returning the next day, or for a day meeting , returning shortly after constitutes moving your operations interstate.

so David, how long you had your trainers licence?

01-06-00, 02:20 PM
It may interest you to know that Kidman's Cove is dead....did you know that in Melbourne (an outer suburb of Canberra)?

01-06-00, 02:23 PM
I remember not that long ago an interview with Size, when he said that he'll keep his team small (ie around 11). Now he has two stables at Randwick and 80 horses in work - it's incredible what a taste of money milkshakes will do to those ideas.

02-06-00, 12:15 PM
Agree totally Cynic. By the way, know it all Looksthegoods i think that you will find that Sorrento had 3 starts in Melbourne(is that overnight or the next day) and Kidmans Cove may not have liked Melbourne way of going but he raced up the straight. How the hell would you know if i had a trainers license or not(you are not the only one in the racing game). Just because you have a horse with him, it doesn't mean you know what's going on. You and a lot of others read the newspaper propaganda and believe all the crap. If he was that much of a genius trainer why the hell wasn't he leading trainer at Brisbane or the Gold Coast. Remember Looksthegoods often where there is smoke there is fire.But then again you can just leave your blinkers on and go for a ride like the rest of them.I now await your holier than thou attack on me.

03-06-00, 05:38 AM

Fire up!

Sorry about the wrong info Looksy. Good carve up David, and I think you are on the right track.

03-06-00, 02:00 PM
David, David, David. I think you need to go to a Yoga lesson old son as your getting a bit tense. It has obviously been a while for you as your testostrone goes through the ceiling. You poor bastard ! You want to get serious or not. Why are you out to knock John ? Curious? Everyone loves to knock someone on the way up & this is a typical example. I remember everyone knocking Gai Waterhouse a few years ago saying Tommy was still training her horses for her & she was just a front. Well Tommy really must be God as he is no longer with us yet have a look at the trainers premiership in Sydney.
Hawkes 91
Waterhouse 90
SIZE 66, & then, next, come on
Walter 32.
John rides each horse at least once a week which is more than half the fat arsed bastards that have a licence. He's on the way up & insecure people like yourself can't handle it, yeh he must be up to something, yeh it can't be true.
Everyone loves a knocker ! Well John Size is now a household name & who might you be. Oh that's right David without a last name - lets all buy a horse & call it "David Mr Insignificant" yeh lets do it !
PS David can be seen at your local McDonalds - he's the one with the big red nose ! He answers to "Genius".

Looksthgoods (aka Xolent)
03-06-00, 02:11 PM
After I finished ROFLMAO at concretes comments, just have this to ad for David;

When I said "How long have you had a trainers licence ?" it was a joke, and a common one used in the industry for a long time!!

I have several horses with about 5 trainers, don't consider myself an expert, but between my partner & I , have over 40 years experience in this industry!

Nothing holier than thou, I'm an atheiest!!!!!!

05-06-00, 04:02 AM
Well every trainer has a period were they are on top, because they can't stay there for ever. My grandparents were successful trainers in New Zealand for many years but times cahnges and someone else has taken the reins of being the best.
John Size might as well have the change to prove that he is able to do that job and do it will.
All I say is good on him he deserves the chance.

06-06-00, 10:31 AM
when did Kidman's Cove die and what happened to him?

georgie girl
06-06-00, 10:46 AM
here here larry!!! blind and bloody well naive.

06-06-00, 11:28 AM
Glad I'm over 20 unlike you georgie, larry & the other kids & I shall leave you to play in the sandpit with the horseshit you enjoy!!!!

yes you lot are naive = artless & self revealing

06-06-00, 01:31 PM
well looks like I have entered quite a heated argument on the calibre of John size.
Well when we look at the facts it is quite obvious that John size does not like to travel horses interstate and perhaps larry is on to something quite big which has not really entered my mind until reading everyones responses!
Perhaps he too may become one of these trainers that suddenly can produce a horse to explode and win two races straight and then unfortunately they just never seem to fire after that ie Georgie Boy - And we always seem to be the mug punters that jump on preceding starts and get machined because we back them. And bang they come out of knowhere and bite you on the nose-
King of Acapulco is another great example.
They all seem to get this positive burst from somewhere and right at a time when everyone is looking elsewhere!!!!!
I tell you what If we all could get our hands on some milkshakes like those we all would be better off!

06-06-00, 02:32 PM
Yes Mossman, agree entirely. If you look up a lot of the form of some of the scrubbers he gets. Albury or Wagga or Woop Woop. Unplaced their last x amount of runs, then hello they win 3 or 4 on the trot in the metrop area. The breeding of a lot of them aren't flash and voila, he is such a genius he can make them win so many in a row. No other trainer can do it, Bart TJ et all. Go back 1 year-18 months and some of the horses he improved so much, I saw one of them in Tasmania, you guessed it, couldn't get sited,their form goes completely downhill. Another case in point Simonay. How many did he win on the trot with it. Then it goes to Clarry, nothing. But then hang on Looksy the syndicator thinks we all play in the sandpit because we're jealous and "not trainers". Ask a few of your trainer mates and see what they think.Or better still grow a bigger brain to work out that 1 and 1 sometimes doesn't equal 2. There's food for thought, and awaiting your immature reply.

07-06-00, 12:08 AM
Black Bean will storm home to snatch the Straddie.

After my huge wins on Voile D'Or and Glenrowan last week I am in superb form - so all aboard.

I am off for a milkshake - I running in the Derby on Saturday after a last start failure at Ipswich so I will need it.

Normally I wouldn't condone the type of messages put up by Larry, Mossman, Georgie Boy et al, however, Looksthgood's constant inferences that no one should post a message unless they have been in the industry for a thousand years is inherently snobbish and does a disservice to the industry as a whole.

Play the ball not the man Looksthgoods.

07-06-00, 01:30 AM
Maxie, my apologies to you, if you have interpreted my defence of my position as infering that you need years of experience to post a message. This was not my intention; I was responding to inferences that I have no idea, and blindly (with blinkers on) put horses with trainers just for the hell of it!; or because of media hype etc.
I have no problem with anyone having a different opinion, but some substance behind them would be nice.

07-06-00, 02:17 AM
You want some substance.

I have just booked myself into the JJ Size stable and will ask him to train me for the 100m, 200m, 400m and 800m for the Sydney Olympics.

My credentials seem perfect, with no athletic credibility, but hey hey, you will see me go on a miraculous winning streak within a few months.

Anyone like to join me?

07-06-00, 03:30 AM
Kidman's Cove died earlier this year from colic.

07-06-00, 03:46 AM
I have no idea who the hell you are but let me assure you now - just because you're an owner doesn't mean that you know half the stuff that goes on in racing. If I didn't value my life I could tell you right here and now the dodgy business that goes on in this industry.

I, on the otherhand, have been involved in this industry at a grass-roots level - and from this view there are plenty of "buffer"ed-up worms. I can tell you right now that if you believe the industry is clean, then you are the truly niave one of this forum.

Remove the blinkers and the pacifiers sweetie, you've got a lot of growing up to do.

07-06-00, 01:13 PM
I have one for you all to follow from the master trainer. This one will really see if he is running a milk bar or a stable.
Another Marauder, 3 starts for the new stable with impressive results of 10/10 5.6l, 11/12 5.2l, 15/15 16.2l.
The question now remains will we find Another Marauder bolting in within the next few starts or suffering a bout of "colic"(overdose)like our favourite horse Kidman's Cove or will J.J send him off to a methodone clinic like the Connor's stable.

11-06-00, 03:41 AM
Actually, the owners are the last people on the industry who know what is really going on. Do you think a certain fruity owner knew that his mighty racehorse suffered a serious tendon injury during the Cox Plate, which subsequently led to his breaking down in Autumn '99? Of course he didn't!! Trainers do their darndest to keep the truth away from the owners, all in the name of making money.

11-06-00, 10:27 AM
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If your message has been removed that will be the reason. Please bear that in mind with your future postings.

12-06-00, 05:10 AM
.....and I thought the Equestrian forum was getting heated - lol - kids stuff.

13-06-00, 09:55 AM
and not beinga part of it makes it rather entertaining (sorry Bill). But I must say, I love the analogies like, "get your blinkers off", and, "off with the pacifiers..." Thanks guys, food for thought. Perhaps we could go back to the Equestrian Forum with something like, "Oh, get out of your jumping saddle", or, "what happened, lose your reins???"

17-06-00, 12:34 PM
LAHAR. That horse you mentioned Another Marauder won a barrier trial at Warwick Farm today. I shall stay tuned and watch it with interest.

23-06-00, 03:41 AM
The reason John Size dose not take many horses interstate is because he has grown to big to quickly.The reason I know this is because I recently had to remove my horse from his stable and it was'nt because the horse did'nt have any ability (Grand Lodge-Skywalker Wilkes}which cost me $100,000 as a yearling.I tried for about six months to get him to take my horse without any success I think that John Size likes to train ready made racehorses and rejects from other stables which can give him instant success.Thats the reason you don't see John training many 2YR/OLDS It's a well known fact that Grand Lodge progeny take a fair bit of time,Time John Size did'nt have.I sent the horse to Lee Freedman and the horse has never looked back and hopefuly looking forward to a successful spring.Lee Freedman has the infrastructure needed to be a successful trainer in all three states {Melb,Syd,Qld}

23-06-00, 12:45 PM

It seems u have brought a valid point into play but i congratulate you on a fine chioce of stables in the "FBI" . With them u assured of success at some level !!
Good Luck

24-06-00, 06:55 AM
i'm wondering in which way you meant that propunter???

24-06-00, 02:07 PM
Dear John, I'm just curious why would you try and convince a trainer for 6 months to take your horse?(Does he think he's Bart). Then you went to Melbourne. Surely, there are a lot of medium size stables in Sydney that have been established for many years that would be only too happy to take the time needed with your horse, why wouldn't you have chosen one of them.
P.S.He obviously took a horse from someone else that has contributed to this forum.

25-06-00, 05:33 AM
Chief's Crown (sire of Grand Lodge) progeny must come to hand alot quicker.. ???

'Jowles' 2yo G.(Chief's Crown-Making Believe) with John's stable since Jan has a barrier trial July 4th. He will only race if he is ready.

26-06-00, 12:22 PM

Simply saying that the freedmans r fine trainers with proven results .

17-10-00, 09:36 AM
Thought this thread was particularly apt in light of the sensational performances of JJ's charges in Melbourne on Saturday.

I think I was also roundly bagged early in the year for calling Georgie Boy the worst G1 winner since Solvit. Um....how is he going??

17-10-00, 09:54 AM
Info from the stable was that Sorrento was a run short, & they had a couple of nice winners in Canterbury.

Great bloke, great trainer & just put another one with him that i bought at the breeze ups on Thursday!

Apt my butt! Maxie find something else to crap on about that you actually know about!

17-10-00, 11:27 AM
Yes, Georgie Boy has come up a treat this campaign, just as I, and a few others predicted. Obviously, the close attention they get in Sydney is not being used in Melbourne.

Sorrento one run short - who are you kidding?! She has had about 4 runs in this campaign.

OK, that's it! No more from me.

18-10-00, 09:36 AM
No more from you Larry, I doubt it. Like ants at a picnic most of you.......lol

31-10-00, 03:54 AM
Sorrento. What's your STABLE info Slade Bloodstock? Is she still a run short. I'm sure all the punters who backed her into favouritism at Caulfield would've been happy to hear that. Does that also mean that she was 2 runs short going into the G1 Epsom H'cap? Well,was she meant to be spot on at the Valley on Saturday. What's the excuse this time?

Call me Dick
01-11-00, 02:14 PM
David, Would love to meet you for a beer, to discuss the pro's and cons of the racing industry. I am new to this forum and have found the reading of a very interesting nature. I am a racing fanatic and spent much of my misguided youth around the tracks, and I think the rise and rise of John Size is the greatest phenomenon I have witnessed as a mere mortal. When will there be questions asked? I find it interesting that Larry Cassidy as stable jockey for John Hawkes can jump ship when ever the smoke signal comes up from the Size chimney it often makes me stop to think and ponder. I congratulate all on this forum who actually query the mysterous goings on.

02-11-00, 03:54 PM
Mossman is keen to get his hands on a few milkshakes. And no wonder why, after seeing what a few milkshakes did for Fowlers Boy at Turtles on Saturday Night!!

03-11-00, 06:10 AM
Dick,Questions have been asked and answered,you are not the only one suspicious of his success with the quality of bloodstock he has, but until he gets caught you have to give him the benefit if the doubt,as for riding horses work this is a great myth he has 80 is work (actually I think it may be even more as he has others trainers pre training for him)if he rides every horse once a week that is about 12 per morning impossible!
and if he was how would he be able to monitor the work of his other 68 horses i.e. see how they pulled up after work? and what will happen if he gets hurt?will the whole place fall apart without him of cause not!he would have the infrastructure the same as every other trainer NOBODY can train 80 horses he would be relying heavily on staff to keep him informed, but it makes good reading the public and naive owners lap it up thinking their horses are getting hands on treatment, it is a production line like all big stables have to be!May be at the start.

call me Dick
15-11-00, 02:40 PM
Dave, I have read your reply with great interest and pleased to say its a pleasure to be able to share my thoughts with people that have a good knowledge of this industry/sport? Our friend doesn't seem to have had much luck down south with biased tracks, unfavourably barrier draws and all the bad luck that goes along with those horror runs. Or maybe was the air a little to think. Swabbing procedures down in good old Vic must be first class to uncover a few mysterous goings on, poor Clarry I.m sure that it was an honest mistake, but I hear on the grapevine that the labs in Qld and NSW have been inundated with many queried specimens. I read with interest that the AJC are bending over backwards to build 100 boxes for the maestro. Although Mrs Size was quite scathing in an article today that the AJC haven't been pulling their weight enough and had these boxes erected already, I suppose building the new tunnels may have delayed the stable project. I would have thought it would be more important for the AJC to concentrate their efforts in rebuilding and maintaining the training tracks to put Randwick back where it should be the number 1 training centre, but it appears there interest are elsewhere. I was surprised that Mrs Size was quick to point out the neglect on this matter and has threatened that Mr Size may be better suited to Hong Kong, come on who are they kidding? Sure he has had plenty of winners and support, but 1 or 2 Group 1 don't make a master.

Hey Dick
19-11-00, 02:25 PM
Call u Dick head!

27-01-01, 02:07 AM
Just an update :
'Jowles' 3yo G.(Chief's Crown-Making Believe) with John Size's stable since Jan 2000 ( a 2yo old ) had his first start July 27th last year running 8th of 9. The only reason he ran was that no suitable barrier trials were available. He had his second start at Wyong Sun 21/01/01. He won by 1/2 len. This was a 1000m race. Chief's Crown progeny do not come to hand any quicker than Grand Lodge progeny. Neither, as a rule, do either win sprint races.

The reason he did so was that John Size has the patience and the talent to produce winners of any breeding and any distance.

Haven't yet seen FBI produce Prestigious (Grand Lodge). He must still be being patient with him.

The syndicate which owns Jowles has produce 6 runners for 3 winners and 3 placegetters. Can you remind me how many FBI produced for Go Racing ?