PDA

View Full Version : Problem horse: PLEASE GIVE OPINION!



RR (Guest)
29-06-01, 10:43 AM
My friend has a 10yo 14.2hh gelding. He picked up the vice of rearing from the owner about a year ago. (rearing on comand).
The horse started to rear out of control and also started bucking. The teenage owner stoped making the horse rear once she realised it was dangerouse and out of control. The horse contoinued to rear and even with diciplin wouldn't give up. He was also unpredictable.
Last Oct. the horse reared and almost fliped at a local show, throwint the rider off the back and giving her concusion. The horse was leased to a family in Feb. this year and was going well, he would still buck but was controlable. Last night the leaser rang to say the horse rears and almost flips over. She won't let her children on his back anymore and has classified him as dangerouse and unpredictable!
The leasers are WELL experienced with problem horses.
The ONLY options left for this horse is to 1. have the horse re-trained (which is difficult as they can't afford it) 2. as the horse is unpredictable and dangerouse have him destroyed. (he can't be sold on as he may BADLY injour someone and/or be abbused by someone trying to stop his behaviour!)
Desrtroying the horse is a last option but 5 different people with different riding abilities and qualifications out of 6 people who know the horse say the horse may be better off destroyed!
The horse already had the unpredictable rearing vice before he was made to do it on comand.

We are contacting Andrew Mclean to ask his opinion too.
PS: does anyone have his number?

DO YOU THINK THIS CAN BE FIXED?????
PLEASE DON'T ABUSE THE OWNER IN YOUR OPINIONS SHE KNOWS WHAT SHE HAS DONE WRONG!
thanks!

Fine Cotton
29-06-01, 12:08 PM
RR, no point in abusing the owner over this issue, I think she can well see what started off as a 'command' has now turned into a vice to the end result that the horse is now DANGEROUS. Rearing is a horrifying experience for a rider and when the horse loses its balance (notice I said when, not if) the end result could quite possibly be a fatally injured rider. I was judging hacks at a Ag show once and one horse I had in a class stopped, propped and reared then fell over back wards on top of the rider. The horse literally tottered on his back legs then sat down like a dog with the rider underneath him. She broke her pelvis and ended up with crush injuries as the horse sat down on her then rolled over her body and scrambled to his feet. Kicked her a few times as he was getting to his feet. That as a judge was a bloody awful thing to witness and to try and administer first aid to that rider who was in so much pain prior to the arrival of an ambulance. I have no place for rearing horses and I do believe it would be the kindest thing to have this horse put down. Perhaps he can be retrained but by retraining him aren't you putting someones elses life at risk? I school horses and I will not accept rearers under any circumstances. Maybe someone else out there can offer you some assistance, but I really feel that the horse is classified as dangerous and unfortunately through no fault of its own needs to be classified as such. Good luck, I hope your friend comes to the right decision with little pain. Cheers.

micarter
29-06-01, 12:28 PM
You would have to find the right person to retrain this horse. Probably someone who uses positive reinforcement.
He needs to have the go forward response made completely unconditional to him. He needs to be constantly rewarded for keeping his feet on the ground, going forward and stopping and turning, backing.
Only extremely experienced horsemen should teach the command to rear and then only after teaching it to lie down, go forward, stop and turn, back up, etc to perfection. (not in that order obviously). :-)
Its possible to retrain him but the thing is can you find someone willing to do it or can you afford to pay someone to do it.

Autumn
30-06-01, 12:37 AM
Ive been reading my Podhajsky book and he has just dealt with a bad rearer. This horse you mention may have started rearing on command but is now rearing to get out work and Podhajski says it is the ultimate 'not going foward' - a huge evasive tactic to get out of work.

What he did was throw the reins forward, lean slightly back and smack the horse smartly behind the girth to make it go forward. He said you never throw your self forward around his neck and dont lean back on the reins (but we all know that).

Now I know the horse you are talking about is becoming dangerous but if you cant get the horse retrained you may have to consider retiring him or putting him down. Best of luck :-)

Patten (Guest)
30-06-01, 07:10 AM
I was horrified to see in one of the Saddle Club episodes on the ABC, the girls showing off their ponies rearing on command. At the time I offered a silent prayer that the kids watching weren't going to practice this trick on their own ponies. It did look cute but as this thread shows, definately not a trick for the inexperienced.

RR (Guest)
05-07-01, 10:51 AM
Hi, Thanks for the responses!
My instructor who is a professional breaker and trainer also said put the horse down!
The owner is not too much for rthis as she want's money out of him!
A girl at the paddock who does natural horsemanship wants toi take him on and sell him! The other option is to send him back to where my friend bought him from 'Nillumbik Equest. Centre'.
The horse has been smacked on the ass while rearing and also tried nocking him between the ears (nocking between the ears worked on 2 horses i have had) but this doiesn't work for him!

We found out that to have him destroyed is (gun) $60 (needle) $100 by the vet!
Does ANYONE know how much you get for him as meat? (if shot).


I do agree the horse should be destroyed, (but try and get that into the owners head!)
THANKS!

Poor Bugger (Guest)
06-07-01, 12:09 AM
Well I must say this is a terribly sad thread that a poor horse is being punished for bad horsemanship. We see it all too often!!! Sorry dont know the going price for horse meat and dont want too!!!!

BTDT (Guest)
06-07-01, 12:29 AM
O.K. you have apparently tried all the obvious things so before you shoot the poor animal, try getting yourself some water balloons and every time it goes up ,yell at it and burst one over its head ,before long it will only need a yell,AND before I get abused IT does work and it is a last resort!

MAYBE?? (Guest)
06-07-01, 12:37 AM
RR,

Where abouts are you????? And what does she want for the horse???? Leave your email adress and I will contact you about him :)

AS (Guest)
06-07-01, 12:52 AM
At the echuca horse sale you can get from anywhere from $400 to $600 sometimes even more for a meat horse, full size horse.My friends horse rears too occassionaly and she gives her some good wacks on the head and it works for that horse.....P/S I know meat sales are really the last resort but if that is the way to go then at least you might get a bit of money back for him/her. Of course putting down humanely is another option also if thats what you decide to do....Jus thinking in comparison to a fatality or quadraplegic injury which are not impossible to get from a horse such as the one you have described to us.

Micasso (Guest)
06-07-01, 02:26 AM
Money, money, money.
Sure nobody wants to see someone get injured by this horse but why does the owner think that this horse OWES her money.
This thread has brought out some pretty sad human traits. To think that someone has ignorantly created a dangerous horse, and then does not want to do the humane thing by having him destroyed at home...she wants MONEY from him...Wasn't ruining his life enough ?
You owe it to this horse to have him retrained by someone with a caring nature who knows what they are doing. Or retire him somewhere away from people who think he owes them for what they have done to him.

KL (Guest)
06-07-01, 03:53 AM
I am really saddened and disgusted by people who feel that just because an animal is no longer useful to them, quick kill it and "oh by the way how much money would I get for it". Rather than pay for a bullet or pay for a humane way of destroying a horse, that through no fault of its own was stupidly handled, you (generally) are discussing sending it off to the meat markets when there have been so many posts about the inhumanity and suffering that the animals go through prior to their deaths. In fact why not, just for fun, take the owner to a meat market/slaughterhouse and then see if she feels comfortable about that money that she wants! Lets not even forget about the fact that some person who knows nothing much about horses may purchase the animal over a meat man and then have major difficulties themselves.

Use some intelligence and either talk the owner into retraining through someone like Andrew McLean (as originally stated you were contacting them) or humanely have the animal either put down or out to retirement somewhere. The poor horse - I am sorry but I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks of money over humanity and the responsibility that owners have for their animals. Just disgusting.

Caz
06-07-01, 04:40 AM
Very unfortunate story, sad for the horse to take the blame.

I dont think Nullimbik (sp?) would take it back if your friend
has taught it to rear.

As a last resort, try contacting "Save a Horse Australia", they
have contacts in Vic, NSW, Qld.

Web site is: http://clix.to/saveahorse
Click on the contact buttons to get an e-mail addy for the
represenative of the state you are in. Send them an e-mail,
and see what they suggest. They are often on the lookout for
companion horses (not to be ridden at all).

Pity your friend wants money for a horse that she has 'trained'
to behave in this way. I agree with the others, take your
friend to a slaughter yard, and see how she reacts to it! :-(

MABYE?? (Guest)
06-07-01, 05:22 AM
RR,
I am very keen on taking him on as a paddock mate and weanling uncle.
Please let me know where you are and how much she wants for him.
Leave you email address and I will contact you straight away.

Karen (Guest)
06-07-01, 01:15 PM
You may already have it, but Andrew Mcleans number is 03 5787 1374.

Good luck

retired (Guest)
06-07-01, 10:59 PM
I don't want this to appear to be a gang attack but 'if you made your bed then lie in it.' In other words the owner has created the problem so should resolve it.
The horse is responding with trained and rewarded behaviour and he can not reason and determine good now, bad now. What was a party trick has turned in to a vice. A responsible owner would either invest in a re-training programme or retire the horse as a paddock mate. Bit like a marriage really. For better or for worse. This horse may be beyond redemption for the people who currently have him but that does not mean that he is beyond redemption for a more experienced and sympathetic hand. I could live with my conscience.

retired (Guest)
06-07-01, 11:04 PM
I would like to think that this question is a genuine one and that is the way that I have answered it. I would be most disappointed if the real reason was to draw our friend Rogilla out as a target for more adverse comment.

Judith NZ (Guest)
07-07-01, 12:34 AM
Very Sad!!
I know I've told this story before but I once purchased a lovely horse (for meat money) as he was going to the works. He was at a friends place and she felt that it was shame to destroy such a beautiful young creature who through no fault of his own had become dangerous so phoned me and asked if I would take him.
He'd gone through 3 owners in 6 months and was rearing and generally very bolshy when I took him on.
I would have to say that He was the MOST Intelligent horse I have ever owned (which is why he learned evasions so quickly) and was a delight. He had HUGE personality.
I worked him on the ground for a month before I would even get on him. After 2 months he had no sign of rearing (never in fact tried on me) and was a safe and delightful ride.
I had him jumping 1.15 cross country and doing nice dressage and then sold him on as I did not need another horse. I made sure the new owners where very competentent and would not have sold him to a novice where he might have relapsed.
The family I sold too still own him and he is now retired on their farm. Sadly he got navicular and they phoned me and asked me if they could find another just like him! :-)

Perhaps the owner of this horse could sell him cheaply to someone who has the time and ability to reschool him.

I am so glad Murphy as he led a useful and competitive life and is greatly treasured by his owner. I hate to think that he would have ended up in a can.
This one deserves to be given another chance too.
When I took on Murphy I did tell the people that I would give it a go but if he proved to be too dangerous I would put him down.
At least he had another chance and everyone was thrilled that he turned out to be such a good horse.

Judith NZ (Guest)
07-07-01, 12:39 AM
Just another thought. I don't suppose that the onwer has thought to check that the horses tack fits correctly and that his teeth or general health is not causing problems!
I have another horse that was given to me (a 3 yr old ISH) as she had problems. She too was going to the works but the owner gave her to me for free.
Her crime?? She had been solid tied and had pulled back violently and had injured her neck.
She is now a happy healthy nearly 5 yr old with no physical problems or riding evasions.

MAYBE?? (Guest)
07-07-01, 02:13 AM
RR,
PLease leave you email address.
I would love to buy him off her and let him retire in our paddocks we have plenty of land and plenty of feed and he would be well looked after. I am happy to have him transported to me.

LD (Guest)
07-07-01, 04:15 AM
i have a ex race horse that is 16hh and he to used 2 rear.
have had him for 3yrs and all the problems have gone.
His rears used to be straight up in the air and i used to pull because i never had any balance. this of coarse made him even more staight. i was actually quite luckey that he didnt fall over backwards!.
in my first year of owning him i went to have lessons with Manuela McLean and soon discovered my problem was FORWARDNESS.
As in the case of many problem hoses. I am still having lessons with Manuela and we have improved greatly!
i strongley recomend having lessons with either Manuela or Andrew.
Manuela specialises in dressage and Andrew in jumping.
Please dont put the horse down for the riders mistake. Every horse has talent.
if u dont agree with this then try whenever he rears find your center of balance and turn him even if he is in the air. Trust me it works i have had the experiance!
Dont put him down!
hope u chose tha right decision. (not putting him down)

JVJ (Guest)
08-07-01, 01:45 AM
Sounds like your friend should not inflict herself / himself on any more horses. This horse has suffered while in your friends care and it sounds like your friend does not have the ability to help the horse now.
The horse could be retrained and deserves to be given the chance.
Otherwise take up the many great options offered here in this post.
I had an appaloosa mare who would rear as an evasion tactic, got to the point I would not ride her out just in case. I turned here out for about a year while I worked on my other horses and in the process realised that my mare was terribly 'stiff' and hard to turn. I went back and taught her how to turn and put some flexion in her body and taught her more about going forward (as another post here has mentioned). She has never reared since.
Tell your friend to give this horse another chance and to quit bawling about the money side of it. Good grief, if you take on the responsibility of owning a horse, you have to live up to that responsibility.
Let us know what happens because there are many people here who are seriously interested by the sound of it.