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View Full Version : Kilharken - RID Stallion



Louise (NZ)
04-05-04, 01:43 PM
I am interested in using this stallion over one of my TB mares next breeding season. I would be interested in comments from anyone who knows the stallion. I have contacted the owner regarding video footage and further details and await his reply.

This is just a little extra research.

Please feel free to contact us via our website, an email address is available there :)

Many thanks in advance :D

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Mares/DB_wee_2.jpg
Our beautiful big black broodie - Kennybrooke Maude (1991 Reg'd Clydesdale)

Jacinta
05-05-04, 01:34 AM
Hi Lousie,
I have a friend who has a yearling colt by him, out of a TB, his truely beautiful, very quiet, correct conformation etc His actually for sale as the lady is into warmblood breeding, she brought the mare in foal to Kilharken. You can see his pic here http://www.equineontheweb.com.au/classBrowseHorsesView.php?id=341

Kilharken is a good choice.

Louise (NZ)
05-05-04, 05:53 AM
Thank you Jacinta - I actually saw this colt advertised in Horse Deals. He's very nice :)

I do love my ISH's. I have a foal due this season to a NZ Stallion called Mighty Heights who is by a Stallion called Wynyard Agile who was (I think) 1/4 RID so this foal will only be 1/16th. The mare has superb breeding and is very nice so I am really excited about this foal. This is the same mare that I would like to put to a full RID for a 1/2.

I ride a Laughton's Legend gelding (by Lahinch, paternal grandsire of Kilharken) and he's fab! (see pic, he was leased this past season to a PC rider while I was in the broodmare paddock, this is hom at the National PC SJ Champs).
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Lagan/SJ_Champs_2.jpg
I breed from a Kingsway Diamond (King of Diamonds) mare and have a superb rising 2 year old gelding out of her by our own stallion.
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Azale%20Malty%20Hippy/Malty_standing_1.jpg
Sorry to ramble on ;) Thanks for your opinion - this seems to be a very quiet board.

Jacinta
05-05-04, 11:05 AM
Hi Lousie,
Your 2yo has a really nice length of rein, and looks like he will mature into something special.

I don't know much about irish draught/ sport horse breeding, but ask me anything about warmbloods.

Hopefully someone else has some more input for you, i have noticed this forum is quiet, but its the best and only one i know that talks pedigree breeding.

Cheers
Jacinta

novah
11-05-04, 01:48 AM
When I was studying Horse Husbandry & Management at Roseworthy College in SA we stood the lovely RID stallion Branigans Pride.

His foals always had wonderful temps. and were very easy to handle.

Most of his progeny went on to be sucessful in most disciplines and the advanced eventer Barastoc Tullamore is testament to that.

Braggs was a B grade showjumper and Medium dressage horse himself with alot of talent until he was retired to stud with injury.

He would be another one to consider putting your mare to?? He is currenty located in QLD you would need to contact Dr. Robyn Woodward for further information.

linjellet
11-05-04, 01:58 PM
Kilharken is by Kiltogert Casey who threw a lot of horse with knees set back. Kilharken's dam Suma's Harkaway was an unsound (though it was covered by a vet certificate!!) injured ordinary mare imported into Aust and put to casey the result is Kilharken, I would probably go for far sounder lines.

Kiwi Lou
16-05-04, 10:18 AM
Thank you for your opinions.

Branigan's Pride is lovely but I am not sure if it is possible to import semen from him in to NZ? Does anyone know?

linjellet
18-05-04, 11:54 AM
In regard to Brannigan's Pride a lovely horse but... Unfortunately he has offset front legs which he passes (not all the time) onto his progeny. Sometimes we get caught up so much in the fire and hype of horses we forget to actually look at them with a critical eye!!

novah
19-05-04, 07:30 AM
Yes some of Bragg's offspring had offset legs and these were usually out of poorly bred and conformed mares. We foaled down about 30 police mares which were all in foal to Braggs and of those it was only the cheap poorly bred/conformed mares that had foals with offset legs.

Braggs is a very heavy set stallion and needs to be put over a smaller/finer TB mare to get a good desireable outcome.

Saying that the majority of his foals had offset legs is certainly not the truth as I spent alot of time with his offspring and a low percentage had bad legs and I am sure this could be said for any stallion if they are not bred with good quality mares.

linjellet
19-05-04, 10:31 AM
Brannigan's Pride himself has offset legs. Say no more!!

Kiwi Lou
20-05-04, 07:25 AM
Linjellet.

You are very good at putting these stallions down - So, wo would YOU recommend?

I have just received the video of Kilharken and some of his progeny and was very impressed. He looks a lovely kind horse with powerful and athletic movement and an excellent and effortless jump. His owner has been a pleasure to deal with as well (so important!). All the offspring that I saw in the video seemed to share their sires kind disposition and movement.

Now I am doing my math to see how what exactly I can afford to breed this coming season ....

Jan Heine
21-05-04, 07:16 PM
Linjellet - just curious - are you against Irish Draught stallions in general or do you have any that you consider to be good ones - and I am not being a smart ass - I am being serious - and yes I do stand Irish stallions myself by way of frozen semen. I am seriously picky about the conformation of my stallions and my Irish Draught stallion scored almost perfect for conformtion in Ireland prior to my bringing him to Australia - and I suspect my young Irish Sporthorse stallion will also score well when he goes for inspection in Ireland.

To the original poster, look carefully at the stallion and then at your mare - if your mare is slightly behind at the knee, and I am not talking serious conformation problems, then go for a stallion who is forward at the knee - if your mare is long backed then go for a stallion with a shorter back and so on - it is all about working with what you have and trying to improve on it.

I think one of the biggest problems breeding with stallions from another country is that it is so much harder to SEE in life the mares that are producing the foals and also you don't have the luxury of seeing the stallion/mare/progeny in life so what you are seeing is what the owner etc. wants you to see.

I am fortunate enough to now live in Ireland and I now get to see the stallions I have coveted breeding with "in the flesh" and see their progeny and the mares they come from - this has actually changed my view on some stallions that I previously really wanted to breed with in relation to my own mares - and nope I ain't gonna get into the game of naming names!!!!!

Good luck to the New Zealand poster with your breeding plans - can't beat the Irish horse now can you *wink*

Kiwi Lou
22-05-04, 07:48 AM
Thx for that Jan. I have attached a couple of pics of the mare that I am thinking of putting to him. I'd love opinions - Good or bad. She's by the NZ stallion 'Silent Hunter' whom you may have heard of.

She is a fairly compact sort of mare and I would like to tidy up her jump technique and produce a foal with more bone, a bit more height (she's 16HH) and that lovely ID temperament (the mare is a sweetheart and her last filly is an absolute darling).

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Mares/Ears_soft.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Mares/freejump1.jpg
http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v35/Loopylou/Mares/Ears_trot_1.jpg

Is semen from your stallion/s available in NZ? We desperately need to expand our bloodline base over here and, as a lover of the Irish Draught, I would like to do everything that I can to do this :D Feel free to email me privately if you wish.

Jan Heine
24-05-04, 12:48 AM
Hi Kiwi Lou - I have emailed you as you suggested. Love your mare and agree totally that the New Zealand gene pool needs increasing but then again so does the Australian one. I have tried with all four of my lads to try and not double up on lines - not always easy as I breed for jumping lines so the King of Diamonds always seems to pop up somewhere but I try to make sure that they are in different places in the pedigrees - and I also have made sure that the boys are different in physical shape from each other to try and again add to the gene pool - well having said that stallion one and two could and have been mistaken for twins but their lines are very very different so I guess that makes up for it.:+

linjellet
24-05-04, 12:42 PM
Jan,


I have only seriously studied two imp sires, Casey and Brannigan, yes they both thrown some nice stock, what I am saying is that they also throw some with bad legs (Casey has thrown a lot of stock that are back at the knee and Brannigan offset joints - both out of quality mares)and as a breeder asking this question (original post) I would like someone to inform me. Breeding is about the good, bad and the honest. I believe and if I can inform future breeders that this can happen so be it - even if you have a quality mare. I believe in informed conformation critiqued sires. For breeders look around go to the breed days and ask people about their horses and take a good look at all horses, take a person with you that has an eye for a good horse etc. I would far prefer people to add to my knowledge base, I may then arrive at an even more informed decision - thus with this post I am further adding to their knowledge base.

As for the breed I love them and wouldn't have anything else, I think they are fabulous and no doubt the imported horses keep on getting better as we have more knowledge and of course dollars and the aussie breeding has improved. Lets keep it that way - keep on being vigilant of the horses we use.

Kiwi Lou,

You have misinterpreted my aim, it was not to put down these horses it was to inform you of the possibilites (you did ask) of this happening - as it has to others - myself included. I was informing you of Kilharken's breeding which personally I would have liked to have known. As for the stallion you choose - that's a personal choice that we all differ on, however, when you decide on your stallion, it would benefit to do some thorough research.

PS One rarely sees a stud video showing anything else but nice horses...


General

My mare who has offset joints is registered with the Aust and also the Irish Stud Book. The ID&SHS had an Irish guest over in the nineties, he and they (Irish and Aussie) passed her with flying colours, personally if I had been on the panel I would not have passed her (I believe one can show stealth in their own horses conformation). Unfortunately a lot of clubs start out this way (monetary versus ethical)and a lot of horses get through that we know shouldn't, mine was one and I know there were many others. The people that owned all of the horses I have mentioned where also part of the founding team of the ID&SHS. When Suma's Harkaway was shown at one particular breed day I would say that 75% of the people there were very disappointed and saddened by the clubs decision. Other than help their own causes the club has done a fabulous job for the breed here in Aussie but they have also...

I believe in informing people and will continue to do so, it may be provocative but it is also refreshing.

Jan Heine
31-05-04, 12:25 PM
Linjellet - you are refreshing in your bluntness, I agree - and I am not using the term blunt as a derogatory one!

As the Society has had only one Irish Inspector to Australia. to my knowledge I would like to comment that the gentleman is very much "on the ball" and I suspect your mare is not quite so offset as you suggest - he is no fool and would not have passed her if she had faults which were detrimental to the breed - he is passionate about the breed here in Ireland!

In the nineties there was a couple from the UK inspecting and perhaps you have mixed up the Irish and the English. ;)

I had an Irish Draught mare who came from Ireland, fully approved in Ireland, who was rejected by the Aust. branch - was strange I thought!

Anyway, if you feel like discussing this further via email so as not to offend anyone feel free to email me

celtic_winners@onaustralia.com.au

Cheers,
Jan

Laverne
01-06-04, 06:49 PM
Sorry, a little off topic here but I'm a bit stunned by something I've just read in Novah's post.

Which police force is it that is breeding with "cheap poorly bred/conformed mares" ?? The thing that got me was not so much the "cheap" as anyone can pick up a bargain, but why on earth would anyone reputable breed with poorly conformed stock?

Kiwi Lou
02-06-04, 12:28 PM
Thank you for the clarification Linjellet :)

You and Jan (and others) have given me plenty to think about and you will both be pleased to know that my research is not yet over (and this does NOT mean that I am no longer interested in Kilharken - it just means that I am looking into other options also!) ;)

Yours in horses (Irish of course!)

Lou

linjellet
02-06-04, 03:02 PM
No, you're still on the topic, it was the SA police force with Brannigan. No one has a stable of perfectly conformed horses, stallions and mares included - let those with perfect horses stand up and be counted!! All we are trying to do when we breed is balance and enhance what we consider to be attributes/faults in our own human logical fashion. Considering what is on the ground we shall still be trying to solve the riddle for centuries to come.

Any police force would benefit enormously from having more of the lovely Irish breed amidst their ranks.

Laverne
02-06-04, 10:43 PM
There is a big difference between a horse who is not "perfectly conformed" to a horse who is "poorly bred/conformed." Likewise, a "good quality" mare or stallion does not automatically mean it is perfectly conformed. We only have a small band of broodmares ourselves and while I can honestly say that none of them are perfectly conformed (although one comes very, very close) they are all of exceptional quality, from outstanding bloodlines and the faults which detract from their "perfection" do NOT produce unsoundness or temperament faults in their offspring. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say linjellet but I think you're saying that generally, breeders have to use whatever is available because there are so many poor quality, poorly conformed mares and stallions available, and we just need to keep breeding on and on in the hope that some of the faults will eventually disappear?

Surely not?

p.s. Louse, I meant to say how beautiful your lovely clydie mare is!

linjellet
03-06-04, 05:36 AM
Laverne,I agree with what you are saying and yes, you did misinterpret what I was trying to say. Australia is in it's infancy (0-30yr) with many breeds and of course we aim to improve continually. Furthermore, equine history has an enormous amount of 'poorly bred' horses which may or may not be well conformed and have been quite successful (success in in the eye of who!!)!

I congratulate you on your band of exceptional quality mares and your near perfect horse, however what does one do when one does breed the perfect horse?

All this is food for thought.

Chezza
03-06-04, 06:35 AM
A great discussion on these stallions.

I think what you should be looking for is to improve your foal. Improve the qualities that your mare does not have and you need to be critical about this.

We all think our horses are wonderful but if you truly look at them I am sure we would all find faults with them.

Someone may see something different to what you may see or I may see.

There are a number of considerations when choosing a stallion to put your mare in foal.

But ensure you are very critical and sum it all up open mindedly.

zoom2
24-09-04, 01:16 PM
I have a magnificent grey colt by Kilharken and I would highly recommend using him. All this stuff about him being unsound is totally unfounded. Provided your mare is good, I would go for it. This colt is the best horse I have ever had, and we breed warmbloods. I would put his movement up against any of the other Aachen, Jazz, Longchamp etc lines we have here. I can send you photos if you would like to email me. zoom2@ozemail.com.au