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Integrity
19-10-04, 10:23 AM
HELP

IS THERE ANY HOPE????


HAVE SPENT A LOT OF MONEY BRINGING A TB MARE (WELL BRED/VERY ATTRACTIVE!) BACK FROM THE SKINNY'S ONLY TO HAVE HER FLUSH EMBRYOS!

SHE IS NOT PARTICULARLY RECEPTIVE EVEN WHEN FULL ON IN OESTRUS - SHOULD I JUST GIVE UP?

Btw, she's 13, and has had four fillies with a previous owner (before the guy I got her off)....


ANYONE EXPERIENCED SUCCESS WITH THIS ????

MandyE
19-10-04, 03:55 PM
I have heard this term, but not being really experienced with breeding, can you explain what you mean? Is that pooling of urine in the vagina you're talking about?

What does the vet say? What's the shape of her vulva like?

Sorry I can't help you Integrity, but I would be interested in hearing more details and other peoples experiences so I can add it to my 'file' of info.

Good luck!

Integrity
19-10-04, 10:30 PM
Hi MandyE

I am more settled now! Apparently some mares have been able to go in foal, but when put out with stallions that can tease them and be with them 24/7.

SO, the search is on! TB stallions?????


What happens is that as her follicle gets larger towards ovulation, she collects and pools urine in her uterus - the shape of it means it flows backwards there instead of totally OUT through the urethra (hope thats right E!)


Still disapointed, but hey, one last hurrah for her I reckon, then she might end up a pretty garden ornament for mum.

kota
19-10-04, 11:26 PM
I have had mares that have done this.
It is quite normal for some mares to have a small amount of fluid in the uterus at the time of ovulation or during the cycle.
If the fluid is not expelled or absorbed within 12 hours of ovulation Oxytocin or flushing can be done, however with some mares the internal structure (i.e the cervix of certain less conformed mares sits on the vaginal vault floor) and angle of the vaginal vault means the urine will flow back to a certain degree.When the urine flows back it just seeps into the low sitting cervical opening. Mares who are caslicked can still do this, as caslicking does not change the position ot angle of the vault or cervix.
If you completly clean the uterus post ovulation, turn the mare out the urine will ultimatly flow back and urine and embryos don't mix.

Through trial and error I have found some mares put in with a stallion concieve and carry without drowning. I guess we have all seen mares running from a stallion or being teased, lowering and urinating and kicking at them whislt spraying urine everywhere, well some of that urine would be from the vaginal vault and it is expelled through the running,squat urinating and teasing process. Also live serving the stallion has a pre-ejectulate which is natures own little antibiotic, with AI and Frozen this Gel as it is called is removed. Gel does not kill semen it protects it during its journey to the ovary. If the semen where to touch the urine the little swimmers would die straight away,hence pre ejectulate.....clearing the path ahead.(BTW men have it too) All the modern tech cannot replace what nature has put there anyway. Once the mare has ovulated it takes between 7 to 20 days for the cervix to completely close (Urine tight). So if the mare is running and kicking, expelling for this time she is with the stallion after ovulation in some(not all) cases it is enough of a window of opportunity for the uterus to stay clean and the cervix to seal.
Hope this awefully long post makes sense.
Breeding soundness checks....pre purchase are a must, tone, structure are at the forefront of my broodmare selection otherwise you end up with these as I call them BUDGIES.

Integrity
20-10-04, 12:30 AM
Thanks for that Kota!

I realise breeding checks are a must: however I asked for one, and then he agreed. Then she had to go ASAP and so on the truck and arrived looking rather light on!

So I suspect this is a result of being light on, and already having foaled x 4 times, with not great management in between.

She is returning today after being flushed, hopefully she'll be more settled as she's seen him before (!) and will stand.

Have also heard good reports of use of Raspberry Leaf?

FINGERS (AND TOES) crossed!

excited angel
20-10-04, 07:35 AM
Yes lots of mares have this problem but it is no unsurmountable. Imperative you have a good (excellent) equine gynaecologist, ie. Angus McKinnon. It will cost, but eveything does, but find a good vet experienced with breeding problems. Where are you, I may be able to steer you towards someone directly.

Integrity
20-10-04, 10:05 AM
I am in central QLD. Mare is on the Gold Coast (well, near Biddadaba)

That would be much appreciated!

:D