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amelaura_park
15-02-05, 08:12 AM
I have had my WB mare inseminated twice this season to come back empty both times, now i know that this isnt unusual to have two negative preg tests etc. But my question is when would you say is the latest you could inseminate. Is this time of year getting too late?
How late into the season does everyone else breed, or what time of year do you think best for breeding.

Millie

Spelling
16-02-05, 02:56 AM
If your mare is still cycling property and your vet seems to think there is no problem with your mare/semen, then I'd give it one more go.

I am in a similar situation to you in that one of my mares did scan in foal in December. She subsequently came back in season about 6 weeks later. She was then scanned to show she had slipped, and was also holding some fluid which turned out to be a bacterial infection. She was then reinseminated with frozen once the infection was cleared and was due to be scanned today, but was very much in Season on Sunday. She was taken back to the clinic on Monday (yesterday), scanned . . . had a 3.6cm follicle, no foal (clearly), and no fluid. The vet will be doing swabs again to determine if she is carrying any new/old infection but it is also getting late for us.

I am a bit over the whole process now (many years, much time, loads of money, no foals). Though, saying that, if I'm going to give it one more go it must be this year because I am having a break next (I need a break emotionally and financially).

I am leaving it to my vet as he has been brilliant (Agnes Banks in NSW). If this mare doesn't come clear with her swabs then she is out. If she does show clear & clean, then we may think about giving it another go, but I am neither her nor there on it now.

It is not too late just yet (though it is at the very end of breeding season).

amelaura_park
16-02-05, 03:19 AM
Well we have one major thing in common and that is our brilliant vet. I also am using Agnes Banks. They were quite happy to inseminate again, however my mare started to look laminitic so we have now been done the track of x-raying feet, nothing drastic is happening, however both myself and the vet are a bit wary of trying to get her in foal when we are trying to correct her feet. I have to have her shod again, but with heart bar shoes and packing the feet out.
If i cant give it another go this season i will bring her back into work once her feet are better and try agin next season.

Good Luck with your girl.
Millie

Spelling
16-02-05, 03:54 AM
Yes, that could definitely be an issue should it be confirmed (the laminitis). FYI, Jonathon Lumsden from Randwick is a brilliant leg man if you need to have more exhaustive tests done (fingers crossed you don't).

My problem was two years of not such great veterinary service (from another local clinic) and bad luck, followed this year by excellent service (once I finally saw the light), then brief good luck, bit of bad, then good, then a bit more bad. I have two mares, one is in foal (the tough one) and the other one that was in foal for about 6 weeks is not. Though, at least this time, I know the vet I am using is on my side and is thinking about the outcome for me rather than not thinking at all.

Anyway, I will know by Thursday if this mare gets another go or not. I have definitely exhausted all avenues though.

It's a bit disheartening isn't it? :)

amelaura_park
16-02-05, 04:04 AM
It is disheartening.
This is my first time ever trying to breed, was given the mare last october.
X-rayed her feet at Agnes Banks (i normally use Uni Vet Centre at Camden for legs), it isnt anything to dramatic, and they actually dont think theybare new changes, its just that the weather at the moment has softened her soles, and the combination of being in a pen at Agnes Banks, and only having her shoes off since oct, has made her feet sore, she is quite flat footed, so we basically just need to get pressure off her soles, she is walking okay, just shuffling a bit in trot, and she normally has a super trot.

Good Luck for thursday

Spelling
16-02-05, 05:19 AM
Is she still out at Agnes Banks? My Anglo is there at the moment -- she's wearing a rug with orange and purple binding (we like to stay at the forefront of equine fashion -- kidding! :)). Do you keep your horses out Windsor/Wilberforce/McGraths Hill way? It sounds like your mare has been at the clinic for a little while. Mine are agisted at McGraths Hill, which is about 10-15 minutes drive from the clinic.

Well, I hope the laminitis is a false alarm and that you are able to inseminate one last time (with success). Which stallion are you using? I know that ABEC collect from Visage, Vivant, Conquistador and some others . . . are you using any of these stallions?

amelaura_park
16-02-05, 06:57 AM
My mare is at home(Tennyson), now. I work at McGraths Hill though.
She was at the clinic for 10 days, as i couldnt take her back and forth because of work.
The stallion i am using, Voodoo, is actually now a gelding!
Spoke to vet bout 20mins ago, has lined up a farrier to look at x-rays and then shoe her accordingly. He still isnt to concerned so when i take her over there to be shod, i will talk to them bout inseminating.
If i see your mare, ill be sure to say hello to her.

I hope all goes well with the preg test!!! (my fingers are crossed for you). Who has she been put to? And how about your other mare thats in foal?

Spelling
16-02-05, 07:16 AM
Ahhh, I remember Voodoo -- wasn't Gill Rickard riding him? (perhaps she still is). So, you're definitely using frozen in that case. I'm using Visage and I am praying that my other mare holds her pregnancy full term. It is hard to know whether my AA will be reinseminated at this point -- it all depends on the swab results which should be available on Thursday.

It really has been a mamoth effort doing this. The past couple of years I was using frozen semen of a Danish Holsteiner S/J. Alas, no luck there -- this AA had one dose of him too and (it's suspected) that's how she developed the dreaded infection in the first place due to her sensitivity to the chemicals used when preparing and freezing it.

Still, I am a glutton for punishment, as I am looking at the advert for Whisper as I am typing this. My problem is not lack of semen (I still have more in storage), which is not your issue either. :)

amelaura_park
16-02-05, 08:55 AM
Yeah Gill owns him, i have been riding with Gill for 12 years, and rode Voodoo for 18 months.

If he doesnt work out, Whisper was one on my list as is Jive Magic. Im breeding for dressage, so there are a couple of nice imports acailable, i also dont mind Pzzaz, he has a great way of going. But fingers crossed for a Voodoo baby somewhere down the line.
There are definately some good quality sires out there, but after riding Voodoo, i do have my heart set on a baby by him at some point in time.

Spelling
17-02-05, 03:52 AM
Hi there,

My mare's swab results have returned and she is clear. However, the vet is not wanting to take any chances with her so will be irrigating again further up the horn and growing another culture. Should have those results by Friday. It is hard to know whether I'll bother to inseminate again with her. Like you, I will be then giving her a third and final roll of the dice this season and I can't honestly say that her history to date fills me with confidence. Anyway, I'll cross that path when I come to it -- I'll have two-and-a-bit weeks to ponder the matter.

I quite like Jive Magic and Pzzaz too. If I had to pick from either it probably would be Jive only because I've already seen some of his foals and they appear to be very nice types. Also, he is fairly local to us and does live cover. After going through this extremely time-consuming, gut-wrenching and costly process for close to 3 years I am really beginning to appreciate the value and simplicity of live cover.

amelaura_park
17-02-05, 04:10 AM
Thats good that the results were clear, lets hope the next lot are aswell.

Jive is really my pick aswell, he is just a super horse, i watched him go on the weekend, and i was amazed by his paces. He is definately a super star, and would make super babies. Are you sure he does live cover? I thought that they collected and then inseminated either fresh or chilled, depending on where the mare is. If they do live, thats where my mare would be going!!!

Spelling
17-02-05, 05:09 AM
He's advertised as "natural service" or "frozen semen". Natural service to me means, well, a sordid few moments for the stallion and mare -- minus the 3-course dinner and violin serenade. Cigarettes after the deed has been done would be optional :)

I agree, he is nice. And, if they do live cover, it makes the service even more appealing to those of us who struggle with our mares and the AI process.

amelaura_park
17-02-05, 05:44 AM
I will definately look into that one further.
However it will be next season for us, so they might change that due to his competition career. But hopefully not!!!

Spelling
17-02-05, 08:56 AM
Does that mean you have given up (dependent on your mare's situation) for this season? Am I going to (possibly/possibly not) be going it alone now? I don't really want to breed (or should I say, 'attempt to breed') next season. It's been a huge gamble that has not paid off for me and I've been at it now for 3 years with 3 different mares. I also don't turnover my horses -- they stay with me indefinitely.

Funnily enough, the two girls I have now (the first mare I leased off a friend) had a good breeding history prior to my ownership. The Gods are indeed against me.

All my hopes are weighted heavily on my T/bred at this point in time and she has already been confirmed pregnant but has another scan next week to make sure she hasn't slipped it . . . [oh, gawd!].

In hindsight it would have been far easier, time and cost effective to have gone and bought the weanling of my dreams, but I have needed to travel down this rocky road before seeing the light and realising the error of my ways. Fortunately, like you, I do have a great vet now that actually does make sense and is thorough, but the process is painful, particularly so when I keep encountering problem after problem after problem, and more. I wonder if I would have had these same issues with live cover or if my success would have been greater?

Anyway, I await the outcome of both my girls . . .

amelaura_park
17-02-05, 10:15 AM
Yeah have given up on this season. Have decided to try next season, probably with a different stallion.

I really want to give my girl the year to get her feet back in good condition and to get some weight off her (she will be starved!!!), thinking about it she probably also needs the time to adapt to being a broodie and not a "rugged all year round, feed good food" ridden horse. In other words she needs to rough it for a while!!!

Good Luck with your girls, let me know how everything goes, either via the forum or email me amelaura_park@yahoo.com.au