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waimea
30-03-05, 03:51 AM
Would it be fair to say most people that breed with frozen are breeding dressage horses. Why is this? Could it be dressage riders are more likely to pay the 'actual value' of a dressage horse? Is there a market for jumpers down under. Is offspring by landor S, corrado, cassini, cento, etc, worth its 'actual value' here? What results have people had with jumping stallion semen... who is fertile and who is not and who is commercial?

Your thoughts, info much appreciated
wanabe frozen breeder....... unsuccessful after 3 cycles!!!

EA
30-03-05, 05:55 AM
We have had a breeding program in place for jumpers for a number of years now, mostly using frozen semen.

You are right there are not many people doing this, as their is a much larger market for the dressage horses, having said that there are very few people breeding international quality jumpers, so the ones that are, are getting very good prices for their horses.

We dont sell any currently as we are keeping all the fillies for our own breeding program. We plan to sell mostly going riding horses rather than foals.

The start up costs of putting a program like this is place is rather high, to say the least so you need a fair bit of commitment.

waimea
31-03-05, 11:02 AM
Thanks for your reply. What stallions have you used? It seems that a lot of people are getting away with marketing them for both dressage and jumping I know a lot of the bloodlines do cross over often but I find that interesting as there really is only a handful that produce both consistantly. I was looking at importing a mare it would be one way to get a headstart but yes you are right there is a lot of commitment involved and it is a long haul!

EA
01-04-05, 02:51 AM
I have used lots of stallions. There are some cross overs but really you are breeding either dressage or jumpers. Once you start getting the good quality jumpers, the movement is really quite extraordinary so they move better than our dressage horses. But really our standard of dressage horses is not high. I have found that the Espri line produce good moving horses, and quite elegantly built, quite different to the french and holstein horses which are much more compact and have a heavier build.

The french horses dont produce great movers but are pretty powerfully built horses, I really like the french jumpers and have bred a few and plan to breed quite alot more. But you wont get dressage horses from these. I have semen from quite a few which I have not bred yet, so hopefully will next year.

Some of the stallion I have used and have foals on the ground are, Espri, Concorde, Laptop, Rabino, Budweiser, Cabdulla Du Tillard, Elbundy, Condios, San Brasil, Cairo 869, Uniform. There are more but dont remember off the top of my head. I also breed some dressage horses each year as well.

I really get improvement in the quality of the horses you need to breed quite a number and keep them in the breeding program. It iwll take a long time if you only have one mare. I was initially going to just breed 3-4 per year. The first year only one of the mares actually got in foal, so its not really viable, you need bigger numbers, so had to change my tact completely. Next year we will have over a dozen frozen semen bred fillies in the breeding program.

Mooks
01-04-05, 03:33 AM
Sue Hovell from Yalambi Stud in Western Australia is purpose breeding showjumpers and some exceptional ones at that. I'm not 100% sure if she is selling them locally or internationally, but I'm sure when she gets a cracker that it will stay in the paddock for Rory (her son). From what I can remember, she imported a couple of jumping mares, and has been using frozen semen from the likes of VDL Corland, Indoctro, there are a few more but offhand I can't remember who they are.

Spelling
01-04-05, 05:23 AM
Linda from Bungaree and Leslie from Copabella are also involved in this arena with their imports -- mares/stallions/semen -- as well.

EA
01-04-05, 05:43 AM
Yes linda is another one of the big frozen semen jumping breeders. There is also a holstein stud in WA that is doing something similar, I know they imported mares, but not sure if they are continueing to breed with frozen semen. I didnt think Lesiie was really big into breeding jumpers via a frozen program, I thought she mainly bred with her own stallion. Same goes for the Chuggs, they have some imported mares I believe but use mainly their own imported stallions.

There are certainly lots of people that are breeding one or two to jumping stallions, but not many with a big breeding program in place.

Most people that breed alot of foals use their own stallions.

bunyip1
03-04-05, 09:58 AM
>Would it be fair to say most people that breed with frozen
>are breeding dressage horses. Why is this? Could it be
>dressage riders are more likely to pay the 'actual value' of
>a dressage horse?

Regarding your comments above its purely economics...the less time and work needed to sell a horse, the better the 'bottom line' will be - especially as using frozen semen is a costly exercise!

Dressage riders buy on 'potential' (most of the time) where-by showjump riders tend to buy on 'proven ability'.

As for your comment on dressage riders paying 'actual' value you must remember that 'a horse is only worth what somebody will pay for it..' if you can get $5k as a foal or $15k as a proven competetive horse you do the maths on who comes out 'in front' and why targeting the dressage horse market is more popular.

waimea
06-04-05, 05:57 AM
Yes you are absolutely right you can see how well a horse can move from a young age but how well it is going to jump is a different story. thanks for your replies.

Bats_79
06-04-05, 10:12 AM
We are breeding a couple of mares to Rabino. The foals will be double cross Ramzes through Ramiro and Romedio.

Romedio is the dam sire of Lyra who was Germany's leading world cup qualifier winner in '94. She was favourite for the World Cup final but didn't win. He is also the dam sire of Denmark's Ivita ridden by Lars N. Pedersen.

We are hoping that the foals will inherit jumping ability, conformation and good movement. We were going to try Cento but the semen isn't very successful. I also like Sergent Pepper who has a good FN index in both dressage and jumping.

EA
07-04-05, 02:21 AM
bats 79 I have a couple of rabino's one colt and one filly. the colt is the Romedio cross as well. You wont get the dressage movement from that cross. it is very classic compact holstein. The filly is out of a TB mare and she had bigger movement but perhaps not the strength in the hind and limbs.

There are a few stallions that are successful in producing both jumpers and dressage horses, Ramiro and Espri (escudo) lines are amongst these. In his Day Purioso has was leader of the breeding rankings in both disciplines. You are very very unlikely to get a dressage star though if you breed two jumping lines together, you may get the good movement, but I think the best results for getting movement from jumpers was crossing a jumping line with the dressage line. having said that the foals are generally better moving than most dressage horses bred here anyway so comparatively they are still very good.