PDA

View Full Version : How many of us have BS ?



Michal
15-06-05, 08:28 AM
Hallo,

Im just curious how many people that read this
forum actually have BS.

Just leave your reply in this thread and this should
tell us how many people there are .

If you care tell me/us if you bet win only or exotics.

Im also interested in how many Peter Bent followers
remain if any.

I bet win.
Im not a Peter fan but have his books and use some
of his ideas.

Thanks

Michal

mikemcbain
15-06-05, 08:49 AM
Michal

Why are you curious to know how many people have BS?

In any case it may be misleading info. eg. I had it for several years before I actually "used" it.

And although I use it on a daily basis now I don't actually use it to produce selections other than for my punting competitions on this forum.

I would suggest a number of people on this forum have BS but don't actually use it for their regular betting on a daily basis or perhaps even on a weekly basis.

For me it is sufficient if just one person on this forum is a competent user of BS and is prepared to exchange info and ideas. But I also know that Neale would answer my queries if I was stuck.

Cheers

Mike.

Michal
15-06-05, 09:28 AM
Hi Mike,

I am just curious that is all. I am not collecting some
data to use in evil spam nor am I trying to find out
how many users can help me. I have been with Neale's
bet selector for 4 years or longer and because
my name is spelled as is he will know who I am.

I was just curious. If people find it inapropriate
dont respond. Im a plumber by trade and in my
simpleton way I was just asking a question.

There is no misleading info to be posted as Im not
trying to guage anything, I find it interesting to know.
We all post here and it would be nice to know a litle more
about who uses this forum and what for.

Thanks for your reply, Im sure that the moderators can
wipe this thread if its deamed inapropriate.

I apologise if people feel that im invading their
privacy.

Michal

YUCKMAN
15-06-05, 09:48 AM
I have BS.

I've been using it for about 8 months, and have about 90 systems, with about a dozen of those I consider "core" systems.

I bet win/place only in a betting syndicate, and our bet ratio win: place is 1:5.

We rely on a 5% of bank staking plan, and have been quite successful since purchasing Neales BS Gold Plus package- which, for just the $500 outlay- has paid for itself many times over.

I converse- via windows messenger, and e-mail with many forum users on a regular basis.
We share many ideas, systems, and the like off-forum- as you don't REALLY know who is looking in on this forum.

This forum is a great tool for general discussion on most BS topics, and all the credit to Neale and Bill for providing such an avenue for us.

swampfox
15-06-05, 10:49 AM
Guys,

I have been using this software since sometime in the 1980's. I have tried many other software/ratings programs, but nothing comes close.

I bet on Saturdays only with some public holiday meetings and win only.

Far Canal
15-06-05, 10:35 PM
Another BS user and on a regular basis....agree with everything ole 'Reschs' sorry Yuckie and Swampfox say.

Cheers.

Sarge1
16-06-05, 12:21 AM
yep I use it and am developing my skills. database database database, old forum posts and commonsense staking plan and away you go

BradW
17-06-05, 12:23 PM
I have been using BS on and off since the late 1980's.

I do not use the systems side of the product.

My punting method makes use of the Plus Ratings and the ability to export horse form to excel for further evaluation.

Brad

Davo
17-06-05, 11:35 PM
Hi everyone,

I've used BS or Price Predictor since early 90's when in those aerly days we had to input the data manually. If I couln't make money from all that work I would not have kept doing it. You necomers have it easy with electronic form downloads!

I use system selector with about 12 systems.The average SR on the most profitable sytems being as low as 23%. Other systems have SR up to 63% (not many selections)- you need patience - as in all punting activies.Staking systems need to be adapted to the expected losing runs of each system.

Secondly, I use the PP selections in conjuction with Weight rating selections to find the consistent rated horses.

good punting all,

davo

John C
21-06-05, 11:47 AM
Michal,
I have had bet selector for several years and us it with another ratings programme called scud pact which also uses cyberhorse form. When both programmes agree I bet . When they don't I watch. I reckon B.S. and Neale Yardley have had the most influence on my punting. A question on Better ratings, 2003 I won $30,000 using top pick on Sydney races only ( wed and sat ). Last year I lost $15,000 using the same method . I have stopped using this method. Has anybody got any suggestions on Better Ratings.
John C.

iamcool
05-07-05, 08:15 PM
I have BS and plenty of it i might add!

Michal
06-07-05, 04:37 AM
>I have BS and plenty of it i might add!

Well,

Thanks, I can see that from your 2 very worthwhile posts.

PLEASE Don't waste our time.

Michal

Squirter
06-07-05, 06:59 AM
Don't you think you should lighten up a little Michal....

Far C.

iamcool
06-07-05, 01:49 PM
Yeah very sorry about that Michal, i'll be sure and run future suggestions past you to be sure they meet your stringent criteria.

Will you be OK or have you gotten your panties in a not over the registration thread. You should have a drink and relax mate.

Apoligies again - not only to Michal but also to all REGISTERED forum members. I can only hope that one day you can forgive my foolish ways.

iamcool
09-07-05, 12:07 PM
That should read knot Not not

Apoligies again - will the madness ever end?

lazzamania
09-07-05, 04:35 PM
Michal, I have had the program for 4 or 5 years and have found it to be very useful, although I have only ever devised one system which has stood the test of time. I still back its selections win only and get about 2 bets only per Saturday out of it. Exotic value, especially trifectas, seems to have dried up a lot recently and percentage profit the hard way through exotics is comparable to that of win only using my system.

I find it hard to think laterally enough to devise something with rules foreign enough from the one I trust to be significantly different from it.


I have other win systems that show a profit thanks to the odd longshot winner, but they don't suit my style and are not, I think, to be trusted long term.

What has amazed me is how hard it has been to concoct (badly) losing systems for laying purposes. It was suprising to me how permutations and combinations of adverse sounding factors thrown together result in a botom line not much worse off than the tote take.
The truest indication of a horse's winning chance, I suppose, is its SP, and its hard to find things to factor in that are not already factored. Perhaps the inclusion of more esoteric parameters into the program would help, but I'm not sure what they might be.


One thing on my wish list though would be a better class differentiating parameter, as I don't find the $000 prizemoney increase specific enough.

I wouldn't be without the program now if only to be used as a quick and convenient way to scan fields comparatively according to various factors, the system selector is a lot of fun as well as being a perennial challenge to me, and Neale's support is terrific.

Michal
12-07-05, 01:53 PM
Perhaps I should lighten up

Barrywh
13-07-05, 03:39 PM
Thanks for your post lazzamania, very informative. I'm also intrigued by the prospect of being able to devise laying systems, but being a relative novice, fear that after reading your post my success so far might well be short lived.

I've specifically tried to target horses that appear in the top 5 Better Ratings - ie BR$5 in the header. Not necessarily to lay them, but in order to exclude them as winning chances and from the exotics.

To date, since 16/04/2005 to 26/06/2005 (a very narrow timeframe - but bear in mind I'm a newcomer to BS and my DB only extends this far)my (hopefully longer-term losing)system found 52 selections for 0 winners and 7 placegetters.

Would appreciate anyone running my rules for this over a longer time frame and posting them on this forum - even if I'll (no doubt) be left with egg on my face!!

The Rules are:

SYSTEM SELECTOR RULES FOR: 2 BR$5 LOSERS (at 23:39:05 on 12/07/2005)
Race Distance: 1000 - 2000
Race Field Size: 8 - 14
Track Condition: GDS
Age of Horse: 3 - 9
Career Starts: 25 - 999
Barrier Position: 6 - 24
TAB Number: 5 - 24
Weight to Carry: 49.0 - 54.0
Days to Last Start: 8 - 100
Runs this Preparation: 3 - 99
Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
2nd Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
3rd Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
4th Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
Weight Change Min-Max: -5.0 - 1.0
Won at This Course: X
Av Prizemoney Rank: 3 - 24
Win % Rank: 3 - 24
Place % Rank: 3 - 24
Predicted Posn Rank: 1 - 5

In the meantime, GOOD PUNTING!!!

lazzamania
14-07-05, 02:04 AM
Barry, I ran your rules through the old style ratings (and if the better ratings are really better, wouldn't it be better to use these old ones for laying purposes, I'm not sure) and it showed not a bad loss, however you are laying the outsider segment of the market a lot of the time which is difficult to do from a liquidity point of view and from the gross overlays you are forced to offer here to attract business at all.

Races Bet : 733
Races Won : 49
S.R./Race : 6.7%
Outlay ($): 768.00
Return : 537.70
$ Profit : -230.30
% P.O.T. : -30.0%

I will have a look at how different SPs fared when I get a minute although market data is still limited.

While on the laying subject (and market data) would someone please run a test on how favourites fare first-up on slow or heavy tracks?

My track condition entry has been slack and I can't rely on it. Seems logical that first uppers, particularly in >1100m races when there aren't too many other first uppers in the race, face a definite race-fitness disadvantage when it gets down to an ugly slog.
Thought I noticed a few of them go under on Saturday.
Maybe just make it:

Career starts: 1 - 999
Starts this time in: 0 - 0
Max no 1st uppers: 3
Track condition: S H
SP Rank: 1 - 1


Thanks,

lazza

Laurie de Loser
14-07-05, 10:20 AM
SYSTEM SELECTOR RULES FOR: B CYB LOSERS$BR5 (at 16:46:07 on 13/07/2005)
Race Distance: 1000 - 2000
Race Field Size: 8 - 14
Track Condition: GDS
Age of Horse: 3 - 9
Career Starts: 25 - 999
Barrier Position: 6 - 24
TAB Number: 5 - 24
Weight to Carry: 49.0 - 54.0
Days to Last Start: 8 - 100
Runs this Preparation: 3 - 99
Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
2nd Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
3rd Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
4th Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
Weight Change Min-Max: -5.0 - -1.0
Won at This Course: X
Av Prizemoney Rank: 3 - 24
Win % Rank: 3 - 24
Place % Rank: 3 - 24
Predicted Posn Rank: 1 - 5
SP Price: 0.1 - 999.9
For metro only 1999- May 2005

winners priced at
56.6
18.4
17.4
16.9
14.8
11.5
10
8.1
6.6
6.3
5.8
5.6
5.4
4.8
3.5
3.4


SYSTEM SELECTOR SUMMARY FOR: B CYB LOSERS$BR5 01/01/1999-29/05/2005
WIN PLACE QUINELLA EXACTA TRIFECTA FIRST FOUR
Races Bet : 290 245 290 290 290 164
Races Won : 16 56 31 12 7 3
S.R./Race : 5.5% 22.9% 10.7% 4.1% 2.4% 1.8%
Outlay ($): 294.00 248.00 1466.00 1470.00 5880.00 9960.00
Return : 195.10 181.10 1755.30 1766.60 11904.50 17237.80
$ Profit : -98.90 -66.90 289.30 296.60 6024.50 7277.80
% P.O.T. : -33.6% -27.0% 19.7% 20.2% 102.5% 73.1%

For lays I like to look at $16 as a cut off point to limit the amount you have to give away to secure a lay bet

That gives 127 selections $16 and below return $77.7, winners 12 so add $36 for slippage gives $113 out for $127 return as a rough real world guide.

Laurie de Loser
14-07-05, 10:29 AM
Missed a line of info in doing reply...this is metro only for 1999 to May 2005

Laurie de Loser
14-07-05, 11:28 AM
Covers metro only 1999 to May 2005

SYSTEM SELECTOR RULES FOR: B CYB FU LOSERS (at 18:34:11 on 13/07/2005)
Max No 1st Uppers: 3
Track Condition: SH
Career Starts: 1 - 999
Runs this Preparation: 0 - 0
SP Price: 0.1 - 999.9
SP Rank: 1 - 1

SYSTEM SELECTOR SUMMARY FOR: B CYB FU LOSERS 01/01/1999-29/05/2005
WIN PLACE QUINELLA EXACTA TRIFECTA FIRST FOUR
Races Bet : 118 89 117 117 117 59
Races Won : 29 43 34 23 14 3
S.R./Race : 24.6% 48.3% 29.1% 19.7% 12.0% 5.1%
Outlay ($): 118.00 89.00 589.00 589.00 2400.00 3804.00
Return : 86.60 64.04 348.60 362.50 841.50 282.70
$ Profit : -31.40 -24.96 -240.40 -226.50 -1558.50 -3521.30
% P.O.T. : -26.6% -28.0% -40.8% -38.5% -64.9% -92.6%

Winners
1.7
1.7
2.1
2.1
2.2
2.3
2.4
2.4
2.5
2.6
2.6
2.6
2.7
2.8
2.8
2.8
2.8
3.1
3.1
3.1
3.5
3.5
3.7
3.7
4
4.3
4.3
4.6
4.6

Barrywh
14-07-05, 01:40 PM
"Something is not right. Something is quite wrong."

How can my system rules find 52 qualifiers between 16/04/2005 and 26/06/2005 and your's only find 290 qualifers over a 5 year period? Bearing in mind that mine have been for 7 days across all venues.

Barrywh
14-07-05, 01:48 PM
Lazzamania,

You mnetion that your data entry has been slack and you haven't entered track condition as often as you should have.

As a newcomer, I'm of the understanding that once results have been downloaded so has the TC. In other words, when I do a system test on SH tracks only, regardless of whether I've manually entered the TC for that meeting, the test will only look at those SH meetings.

I'm assuming this to be the case. Would appreciate any input from more experienced member's if this isn't.

Bazza

lazzamania
14-07-05, 02:57 PM
Thanks, Laurie. They do fare a fair bit worse than favs overall, but trouble is not many of them, even allowing for the 6 year drought.
How many more are there if you go career starts 0 - 999?

For the exercise, this average win price of just under 3.00 means you would be laying them at what - 3.50? If so would leave a 14 % profit to the layer, minus commission/slippage.

Of the 1st 4000 races I ran with any favourite being the selection, 1242 or 31% won (reflecting historical average when equal favs taken into account) at an average price of 2.75 giving the tote a 14 % profit on these selections. An average lay price of 3.20 would wipe this profit out, before betfair commission taken into account.

False favourites are a bit of an obsession of mine.

Thanks again,

lazza

lazzamania
14-07-05, 03:00 PM
Bazza,

As a newcomer, you sound like you know more than me. Thanks for the tip.

lazza

Laurie de Loser
15-07-05, 08:07 AM
Hi Barrywh

I think the "bearing in mind" is the key.

I haven't loaded June results yet so can't do this completely but on my any race anywhere dataset between 16/5 & 29/5 I get 19 selections

Can you check your details for that timeframe to make sure I ain't stuffed up?

Slow N Easy
15-07-05, 09:23 AM
Hi Laurie d L

There appears to be an error in your WeightChange filter.
Barry has -5.0 +1.0
You have -5.0 -1.0

Having said that, I ran it with +1.0 and only came up with 10 selections (all losers) in your time frame 16/5 - 29/5. Are you sure you used 16/5 to start with (perhaps you meant 14/5).

Sorry for butting in.

Cheers MEL

Laurie de Loser
15-07-05, 10:03 AM
Hi Iazzamania

...the result for first starters?

9 contenders with winners 3 at

1.7
1.8
4.5

same conditions as before, ie metro and 1999 to May 2005. I'd say max 1st uppers 3 has basically eliminated this conditions as being relevant.

Laurie

Laurie de Loser
15-07-05, 10:12 AM
Hi Mel

You're right & I'm wrong (twice)

There was a typo in my short period test reply, I should have have typed 16/*4* to 29/5

Also as you've pointed out I've taken the seperator in -5.0 - 1.0 as a negative sign...DAMN. I'll do the full test again and report later tonight.

Laurie de Lost

Slow N Easy
15-07-05, 12:49 PM
Laurie de Star

Your hearts in the right place, nice to see people help others.

Just happened to notice the minus, thought it may save you some time.

Cheers MEL

Laurie de Loser
15-07-05, 05:15 PM
SYSTEM SELECTOR RULES FOR: B CYB LOSERS BR$5 (at 19:31:16 on 14/07/2005)
Race Distance: 1000 - 2000
Race Field Size: 8 - 14
Track Condition: GDS
Age of Horse: 3 - 9
Career Starts: 25 - 999
Barrier Position: 6 - 24
TAB Number: 5 - 24
Weight to Carry: 49.0 - 54.0
Runs this Preparation: 3 - 99
Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
2nd Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
3rd Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
4th Last Start Finish Posn: 2 - 24
Weight Change Min-Max: -5.0 - 1.0
Won at This Course: X
Av Prizemoney Rank: 3 - 24
Win % Rank: 3 - 24
Place % Rank: 3 - 24
Predicted Posn Rank: 1 - 5
SP Price: 0.1 - 999.9


Well that 2 kilos made a difference...


SYSTEM SELECTOR SUMMARY FOR: B CYB LOSERS BR$5 01/01/1999-29/05/2005
WIN PLACE QUINELLA EXACTA TRIFECTA FIRST FOUR
Races Bet : 610 500 610 610 610 307
Races Won : 38 135 78 32 23 8
S.R./Race : 6.2% 27.0% 12.8% 5.2% 3.8% 2.6%
Outlay ($): 626.00 514.00 3114.00 3130.00 12520.00 18900.00
Return : 464.60 479.20 3496.20 3370.60 22187.60 30374.10
$ Profit : -161.40 -34.80 382.20 240.60 9667.60 11474.10
% P.O.T. : -25.8% -6.8% 12.3% 7.7% 77.2% 60.7%

Winners
3.4
3.5
4.8
5.4
5.5
5.6
5.8
6.1
6.3
6.4
6.4
6.4
6.7
6.8
7.3
7.3
7.7
8
8.1
8.2
10
10.7
11.5
13
14.1
14.2
14.3
14.6
14.8
16.3
17.4
18.4
18.7
18.7
19.8
21.4
34.4
56.6

Horses above $16 306 for $221.70
below 16.1 320 for $242.90

zach
17-07-05, 02:47 AM
Hi there I've had BS for 8-9yrs...whilst it has several areas to improve still(don't they all)I recomend it to anyone
Cheers Zach
Re Peter bents methods ..To hard/complicated for me to get my head around..the suttelties always tripping me up