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RTB
30-04-11, 06:39 PM
Today in between showers of rain I took Ruby out who was a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT HORSE. She was on the bit, jogging so nicely, very sprightly! She wanted to GO so I let her GO and VUALA! A nice smooth canter.

I hadn't posted much about what had been going on with her, and here's an explanation as to why the hell I am so thrilled!

She's been lame to the canter and stiff to the trot for about 3-4 months now and practically un-rideable unless I was just walking. Had the chiro out and he fixed up her back, but last time (2 weeks ago) he popped 3 disks back into place on her neck, she had 2 weeks of no riding.
Went for a nice canter and trot around the paddock, not too much seeing as she's all fat at the moment!

And what would a thread like this be without a nice picture?

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/225509_198540466848491_100000776188981_435285_1260 928_n.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224198_198540510181820_100000776188981_435286_7264 492_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/218021_198540570181814_100000776188981_435287_1877 20_n.jpg
Scuse the ears I was holding her back from her dinner.

GoneRama
30-04-11, 06:41 PM
Errr what is the first photo of?

k8
30-04-11, 06:47 PM
Errr what is the first photo of?


looks like acupuncture with a bit of a zip added to stimulate the points.

RTB I'm thrilled your horse is feeling better and working well for you now, but be a little sceptical about chiros that tell you they've just popped three disks back into place!.... unless she had major surgery this is not possible.

MMC
30-04-11, 06:48 PM
looks like acupuncture with a bit of a zip added to stimulate the points.

RTB I'm thrilled your horse is feeling better and working well for you now, but be a little sceptical about chiros that tell you they've just popped three disks back into place!.... unless she had major surgery this is not possible.

I am also sceptical about anyone who connects electrodes to a horse. ;)

Harriette
30-04-11, 06:54 PM
cant 'pop' discs anywhere

she is looking Fantastic RTB, well done!

activated acupuncture does have its place, even in modern human medicine!

Shapeshifter
30-04-11, 07:03 PM
I don't have a problem with the acupuncture but seriously where do people get off saying that horses can put a disk out and if they did do people realise what you'd have to do to get it back in, as someone told me a little while ago the strength of a 4WD attached to one end of the horse and the horses neck tied to a tree would be about it and the horse would probably break it's neck.

ASHlover
30-04-11, 07:09 PM
I have been told previously by a physio that the muscles can kind of pull the spine out of alignment....think that is the right term.

Anyway, maybe chiro said he popped the discs back into alignment but really meant fixed up the muscles that were causing the misalignment...

Dunno, but anyway, glad the horse went well after the treatment!!

I am also curious as to what the first photo is!! :)

RTB
30-04-11, 07:10 PM
He manipulated her neck, they 'popped'. You could hear it, he pulled her head around and had constant pressure on the ones that were 'out'. Idk if it was disks or just needed a good crack


The first photo is some acupuncture with some zap, just like a tens unit but more 'direct'

MMC
30-04-11, 07:16 PM
One of my knuckles will pop with enough pressure. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong. :(

raffles101
30-04-11, 07:23 PM
One of my knuckles will pop with enough pressure. It doesn't mean there is anything wrong. :(

Me too, funny that..... :) But I can also do my toes, and sometimes my back.

RTB
30-04-11, 07:25 PM
Whatever he did it worked.
She was unable to canter, now she can.

meals
30-04-11, 07:31 PM
No doubt her spine might have been misaligned, but yeah you can't actually pop a disc back in...
Chiros are taught how to manage disc injuries and how to prevent them worsening, but yeah one pop will not put a disc back in place
Glad she felt better though!

thesaddleclub101
30-04-11, 07:58 PM
I'm just wondering MMC, if you ever have anything nice to say? :(

Good for you RTB. She looks absolutely fantastic.

Very happy for you :)

shadowmystique
30-04-11, 08:10 PM
Okay disc is possibly not the right noun? Vertebrae perhaps, discs are the cushions between the vertebrae and do not shift as such, but the vertebrae can shift out of optimal alignment causing issues in muscular and nerve function.
Chiropractors specialize in facilitating the realignment of the spine, they can it physically force it into place so they manipulate the body in a way that causes the body to shift the spine back into position. Most misalignments (subluxations) are cause by the surrounding muscular structures pulling thing out of place... So complementary therapies such as acupuncture can increase the success rate and long term benefits of and adjustment.

Adding current to acupuncture can be really good for a sluggish, congested area as it stimulates the flow of the body's own current.

raffles101
30-04-11, 08:10 PM
I'm just wondering MMC, if you ever have anything nice to say? :(

Good for you RTB. She looks absolutely fantastic.

Very happy for you :)

Yeah, she does :) I don't see how what she wrote was nasty?? :confused:

raffles101
30-04-11, 08:13 PM
T
She's been lame to the canter and stiff to the trot for about 3-4 months now and practically un-rideable unless I was just walking.

Just re-read you post, and I thought this was odd....

You would RIDE your lame horse?? :confused:

RTB
30-04-11, 08:32 PM
Just re-read you post, and I thought this was odd....

You would RIDE your lame horse?? :confused:

Shut up Raffs as if you're one to talk.
By lame, she was stiff and stilted, on the weekend for about 10 minutes. To get the blood flowing and moving, very easy going mostly at the walk and at her pace. Also under direction of the chiro.
Raffs why do you always want to make a thread into a fight? Of all people I thought you'd learn from the shitstorms you've created.

raffles101
30-04-11, 08:37 PM
I am not the one riding a lame horse....

Why would a chiro tell you to ride a lame horse???
and I am not turning it into a shitfight, I am just curious as to why you were riding your lame horse?

Harriette
30-04-11, 08:43 PM
quit ya brawlin'

share yr dollies and play nice!

cbrown
30-04-11, 08:46 PM
Hey RTB she does look really good at the moment. Nice neck for an older girl too. I'm happy to hear she is free-er in her movement!

shadowmystique
30-04-11, 08:50 PM
A stiff horse is not a lame horse and especially where stiffness is causing uneven movement, exercise is good for suppling and improving the overall condition and building muscle to support weak areas.
For lower back issues exercise is essential as more muscle tone improves the problem and less makes it worse... Not being able to canter is classic lower back/sacro problems and needs gentle exercise to build the area up until they can cope with canter

raffles101
30-04-11, 09:05 PM
I think I phrased what I wrote incorrectly:

I was meaning that I was just plain curious as to why the chiro asked you to RIDE her. A lunge would have better than getting on her newly manipulated back?
I know that when ever I get the chiro out to Sam, I am told no riding for 24 hours, and a lunge to get everything moving.
That is what just made me curious as to why you were told to ride?

No nastyness intended. I was just plain curious. Still learning about this stuff you see :)

RTB
30-04-11, 09:12 PM
I think I phrased what I wrote incorrectly:

I was meaning that I was just plain curious as to why the chiro asked you to RIDE her. A lunge would have better than getting on her newly manipulated back?
I know that when ever I get the chiro out to Sam, I am told no riding for 24 hours, and a lunge to get everything moving.
That is what just made me curious as to why you were told to ride?

No nastyness intended. I was just plain curious. Still learning about this stuff you see :)

Her back was never manipulated, only her neck. She always had a week before I rode her after every treatment as she was VERY stiff the day after.
With lunging I couldn't push her enough as I did try, plus it's easier to 'feel' if her condition is improving as opposed to 'seeing' whilst lunging.
I have not once pushed her beyond what she could do, always took it slow and made sure she has had everything she needed.
I should have put more detail into my first post.

_Tash_
30-04-11, 09:22 PM
Sometimes my chiro and physio (human) put things into laymans terms so I can understand what the hell they are banging on about. (I've had two shoulder reco's so I see them a fair bit :))

I have had the equine chiro out once or twice to the Warhorse when she first started training and I didn't totally understand what they were on about. The spoke to me in laymans terms and spoke to me about 'popping' things back in. I have no doubts that they didn't mean disks, rather a general term for manually assisting muscular and skeletal structure to return to its normal place.

RTB - your girl looks lovely. It is wonderful to hear that a bit of TLC has sorted some issues out. It is nice when it all comes together :D

MMC
30-04-11, 10:06 PM
I'm just wondering MMC, if you ever have anything nice to say? :(

Give me good reason to and I will. :)

I have said many, many, many nice things about posts on Cyberhorse. Just read all of my nearly 3000 posts.
I am guilty of, 'saying it as I see it' as well as caring for the horses first and the feelings of the owners second. ( I am channeling DO. ;) )

If someone posts a photo of a skinny horse and boasts about having just ridden it, I will comment.

If someone asks for veterinary advice before calling the vet, I will comment.

If someone posts a photo of a terrible rider on their horse, commenting that this person is, "training" their horse, I will comment.

If someone posts photos of a horse in a paddock also inhabited by car bodies and washing machines, I will comment.

But, if someone shows a beautiful, well cared for horse, in safe fencing, ridden by a capable rider, I will also comment, positively.

Yes, I have nice things to say. But I am not blowing sunshine up anyone's bum that doesn't deserve it. ;)

MMC
30-04-11, 10:18 PM
....................................

StElmosFire
30-04-11, 10:20 PM
Hmmmm.... I shall be very, very careful.;)
At least we don't have any car bodies or washing machines! (But, boy, do you see the paddocks from hell sometimes!)

RTB, re your original post, I think you might meant the French "Voila", which means "There it is!", or "There ya go!" sort of thing.

acaciaalba
01-05-11, 12:56 AM
yes,,SEF,,,viola !! thats it for sure !
and why bash RTB ??? she loves her horse, and she does right by it, to the best she can.
Raffs has no room to tweak,,,you have been in the same possy with Sam,,,and you aint perfect either.
just cut em so slack, folks ! they are trying.
they ask,,,,and hopefully take note of advice offered.
everyone has to learn .
were any of you born horse experts ?? i think not.
and before you unload,,,,,no,,,not me,,,,

Dragoness
01-05-11, 01:53 AM
RTB, she is looking lovely!!!!!! So much better than she has been looking, you should be very proud.
As for riding when lame, I still jumped on my boy when he was lame in the trot/canter, we just wandered around the paddock as I just loved being with him. I doubt RTB has been thrashing her!

Cheers

Anubis
01-05-11, 07:26 AM
She looks a different horse.
Well done.

reveleus
01-05-11, 08:10 AM
She looks a different horse from the first picture I remember you posting of her. She's stacked the weight on and it's great to hear you are looking after her so well. Well done mate. It's hard work isn't it? :)

opensky
01-05-11, 08:41 AM
The neck has major muscles and as it is the 'balancing arm' of the horse can certainly detrimentally affect movement if there is tension there.

It's great that she has improved, RTB and hope it stays on the up. Just go easy without asking too much for a little while. Good luck! Regards

Stocky
01-05-11, 10:17 AM
She is looking like a new horse RTB! So much different different to earlier photos. I love seeing the oldies come good. You're doing a good job with her and it looks as though you've found a method that suits her. Good work :)

lalique
01-05-11, 10:41 AM
Her condition has defintely improved RTB- well done.

One thing to have a look at- your saddle does not **look** to be a great fit- it **looks** to be very low over the back and withers and it could be the cause of a lot of your problems.. I hope I am seeing it wrongly.

Also when mounting TBs who are lacking topline it is smart to use a mounting block to prevent saddle movement from twisting their back and pinching muscles. It is very easy to do and can help make a big difference :)

Oh and to whoever said to lunge a horse who has had the chiro to them- it is usually the absolute worst thing you can do to a horse how has had work done. You usually keep them on as straight lines and big rounded corners as you possibly can- no small circle work (eg lunge rein length) at all!

Sandman
01-05-11, 01:04 PM
Oh and to whoever said to lunge a horse who has had the chiro to them- it is usually the absolute worst thing you can do to a horse how has had work done. You usually keep them on as straight lines and big rounded corners as you possibly can- no small circle work (eg lunge rein length) at all!

I was about to say the same...Step-Mum is an equine chiro..

Any horse that has had work done, or requires additional help with building muscles etc..to support the spine and build topline does not benefit at all from lungeing or any circular work...straight lines, straight lines, straight lines...generally at a reasonably active walk or trot...no canter...

RTB
01-05-11, 03:42 PM
It has room in the front to spare, 2-3 fingers vertically between the gullet and her whither (very hard seeing it's so god damned big) only bridges a bit seeing it's double packed from before it went into storage. Soon to be fixed and repacked, still having trouble finding someone that will come and do it and make sure it fits.

Also Ruby isn't a TB, she's a QH. I always use a mounting block regardless.

k8
01-05-11, 04:49 PM
RTB, you are clearly doing a great job with your horse and love her to bits, which is lovely to see....but if your saddle is bridging 'a bit' it could be causing a LOT of pain and if you get that fixed, you'll save money on chiros and physios etc. Any bridging is a bad thing...perhaps you could take your saddle and photos of your horse from all angles to a saddle fitter and have them adjust the stuffing. Where are you from?....perhaps someone could suggest a good saddle fitter/maker.
Also...you really need about 4-5 fingers between wither and gullet...
There is a great series of videos on saddle fit here that I would suggest you and everyone who owns a horse should watch...they are terrific and really make a difference in how you see what your horse needs by way of saddle fit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2mKz0uP_K8&feature=related

Watch all 9 steps and I guarantee you will look at your saddle in a different light!! I know I did!

cheers.

lalique
01-05-11, 06:14 PM
The best way to "test" a saddle fit is to put it on the horse with no saddle cloth and then get on the horse- get a friend to look at it from all angles and see if the channel is clear. Also get themt o watch whiel you mount (block or no block)- it can be a real eye opener to see what happens..

This does not replace a qualified saddle fitter! It is only an indication..

There can be a huge change from simply putting a saddle on a horse back and when you actually add the riders weight

Your horse may not be a TB in breed: but she is certainly built more like a TB in body shape than a flat backed low withered QH- and saddle fit is a really important thing to get right. You can get all the chiros in the world and a badly fitting saddle will undo all the work in 2 minutes

As I said the photos may not be a corect representation of the sadles fit- but it certainly looks to be causing some problems- and it is really worth looking into by a professional, even if you need to put Ruby in a float and take her and the saddle to a pro (it will be money well spent)

I am not trying to be difficult here- just genuinely concerned that this may be a major contributing factor to her lameness issues

missys-girl
01-05-11, 09:55 PM
Ill be surprised if i get to post this, being on dial up speed right now, cyberhorse is not exactly dial up friendly.

First thing, holy hell Raffs could you be anymore of a hypocritical bitch, one thing have noticed is you are SO fast to jump on the members here that are learning and who made mistakes and /or the same mistakes you do/did and you have the hide to look down your nose at them...what the hell is with that?

I thought first thing that RTB was speaking in layman's terms, a lot of chiros will talk like that cause it can be so much easier than explaining what they wont retain or understand, makes sense really.

Harriette
01-05-11, 09:58 PM
sometimes what is meant isnt always what is written,
and what is written isnt always what is meant.

not everyone has a great grasp of language, its a learned skill imho

horsesRgr8
01-05-11, 10:44 PM
I think I phrased what I wrote incorrectly:

I was meaning that I was just plain curious as to why the chiro asked you to RIDE her. A lunge would have better than getting on her newly manipulated back?
I know that when ever I get the chiro out to Sam, I am told no riding for 24 hours, and a lunge to get everything moving.
That is what just made me curious as to why you were told to ride?

No nastyness intended. I was just plain curious. Still learning about this stuff you see :)

RTB said Ruby had 2 weeks of no riding......I thought...

RTB
01-05-11, 10:56 PM
Raffles you didn't read correctly.
Her neck was manipulated, and she was not ridden for 2 weeks. You seem to be picking and fishing for shit to hang on me.

I am going to get the saddle fitted properly, had the chiro look at it without a pad. He said it'd be OK for light riding and nothing too serious, I will get it fitted, just looking for the right person to do it.

Pillegro
01-05-11, 11:22 PM
I agree - pull your 'hypocritical' head in Raffs! I defended you the last time you got caught up in shit with NA...Im starting to wonder why I bothered. You can be a nasty as they come.

Good work RBT. I can certainly see an improvement in your girl.

treacle
02-05-11, 11:46 AM
want to play with mine harriette ???

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_D9TmnAiTr_c/TJ-UKkhlboI/AAAAAAAACcs/Cj4DVePKjU4/s1600/centipede_doll.jpg

horsesRgr8
02-05-11, 01:26 PM
Oh Frex........that is a seriously disturbing picture!!!!!:eek::D:eek::D