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View Full Version : Don't forget Balck Caviar is racing again today. :)



MMC
27-01-12, 09:30 AM
Moonee Valley Race 4 No 6
Australia Stakes - Open (1200m)

Going for number 17. WOW!!

Stocky
27-01-12, 09:38 AM
Sure is an awesome horse!

njuro
27-01-12, 10:33 AM
FRIDAY 27 JANUARY - FRIDAY NIGHT RACING

FEATURING THE GROUP 2 ESSENDON MAZDA AUSTRALIA STAKES
The night will come alive at Moonee Valley with Black Caviar aiming to win 17 in-a-row in the Group 2 Essendon Mazda Australia Stakes.

Bring the whole family and celebrate this special event with loads of fun activities, great prizes and premium night racing to experience.

OPENING AND CLOSING TIMES
GATES OPEN - 5:15pm
FIRST RACE - 6:45pm

ARABIAN RACES - 5:55pm & 6:20pm
The Moonee Valley Racing Club will host the H.H. Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahyan Cup and the H.H. Sheikha Fatma Bint Mubarak Ladies IHAHR Cup. The H.H. Sheikha Fatma Bint Mubarak Ladies IFAHR Cup is for lady amateur riders only and Moonee Valley will welcome twelve international lady riders to Australia to ride in this race. The lady riders will be coming from the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Europe etc.

The Moonee Valley Racing Club, NARA and Australia are honoured to be hosting the first of the H.H. Sheikh Mansoor Bin Zayed Al Nahyan Global Arabian Flat Racing Festival's nine races to be run throughout the world in 2012.

njuro
27-01-12, 10:36 AM
Yes, that's right, there will ALSO be two Arabian races held at Moonee Valley tonight! Most of the horses entered into these two races are endurance horses that have been having a slightly different preparation over the past few months.

Look out for Aqaba Brown Dirt Cowboy and Blakes Haven Bombora, in particular. Bombora is a champion endurance horse, and Cowboy has also proven himself as an endurance horse in 2011. There will be plenty of other proven endurance horses racing as well.

Samsdonks
27-01-12, 12:31 PM
This c.h postee will be glued to tv. When she is in the mounting yard. I'm sure she'll do it. She's got a great trainer. But she's only raced with 11 in a field can she cope with more. Hmmm she sure can. She's a star win or lose.
Good luck blackie. We're all behind you.

MMC
27-01-12, 12:35 PM
There are only six horses in the race.

They are actually having trouble finding horses to run against her. ;)

gdh
27-01-12, 12:45 PM
She'll have a walk in the park to ease her into this prep & can be seen on Free To Air TV at her race time of 8.15 on CH 7 :)

Horsegears
27-01-12, 01:07 PM
ARABIAN RACES - 5:55pm & 6:20pm
The Moonee Valley Racing Club will host the H.H. Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahyan Cup and the H.H. Sheikha Fatma Bint Mubarak Ladies IHAHR Cup. The H.H. Sheikha Fatma Bint Mubarak Ladies IFAHR Cup is for lady amateur riders only and Moonee Valley will welcome twelve international lady riders to Australia to ride in this race. The lady riders will be coming from the UAE, Qatar, Oman, Europe etc.

The Moonee Valley Racing Club, NARA and Australia are honoured to be hosting the first of the H.H. Sheikh Mansoor Bin Zayed Al Nahyan Global Arabian Flat Racing Festival's nine races to be run throughout the world in 2012.

Sounds a bit more fair dinkum this time around.

acaciaalba
27-01-12, 02:04 PM
Samsdonk, her nick name round the stables, and her owners and handlers, is Nellie .

OakyPoke
27-01-12, 03:20 PM
Can I just chuck it out there that Hay List is back. Just ran his first trial this morning and won by 4 lengths. 58.25 over 1000m.

Cant help it, BC is great but Hay List stole my heart!! ;D

Lookout BC!!

kevarose
27-01-12, 03:29 PM
What Channel will it be on and what time? I do not have other than the digital channels that are free. Would love to watch.

njuro
27-01-12, 03:40 PM
Here are the fields for the Arabian races tonight:

H.H Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahayan Cup - 2040m 5.55pm

1. Franshar Park K Shar - Loretta Beckman
2. Warrawee Naaziq - Kim Noble
3. Blakes Heaven Bombora - Catherine Burri
4. Quinta Essentia - Aine O'Connor
5. Paro Prediction - Deanne Pinney
6. Sinaya - Brent McGregor
7. Jupiter Samira - Daniel Noll

My tip: #3 Blakes Heaven Bombora


H.H. Sheikha Fatma Bint Mubarak Ladies IFAHR Cup - 1600M 6.20pm

1. Ridgecrest Shy Guy - Jadey Pietrrasiewicz
2. Wantley Kaliph - Barbara Guenet
3. Ringarah Malik - Berit Weber
4. Cedar Ridge Fire 'N' Gold - Shathra Al Hajjaj
5. Aqaba Brown Dirt Cowboy - Victoria Allers
6. Chardonnay Park Rasheeka - Phillipa Tutty
7. Al Chimia - Azhar Al Wardi


My tip: #5 Aqaba Brown Dirt Cowboy

Jenny Barnes 1
27-01-12, 06:14 PM
Kevarose the race is scheduled for 8.15pm NSW and Vic time and is suppose to be on during the ch 7 coverage of the tennis on their main channel.

Rugrat
27-01-12, 07:16 PM
Are results for the Arabian races published yet? Desperate to find out

mindari
27-01-12, 07:26 PM
Yes, that's right, there will ALSO be two Arabian races held at Moonee Valley tonight! Most of the horses entered into these two races are endurance horses that have been having a slightly different preparation over the past few months.

Look out for Aqaba Brown Dirt Cowboy and Blakes Haven Bombora, in particular. Bombora is a champion endurance horse, and Cowboy has also proven himself as an endurance horse in 2011. There will be plenty of other proven endurance horses racing as well.


better be praying that the chap who sabotarged the last one isnt anywhere he can do the same thing again though.

as i recall all the runners had to have been barrier trained or could not race. were to be ridden by licensed jockeys then whoever he was. ive forgotten his name. banned the jockeys from riding then to make an even bigger fiasco made them start not only from a standing start but with the elastic tape used for starting standardbreds 30 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

what an insult to sheik who organised the event... think it was 3 of the runners had the tape wrap around their legs so they hadnt a hope of being in the race. then he announced see.........the arabs made a farce of the race and shouldnt have ever been allowed on the track... or to that effect.

is there any channel showing it???

Rugrat
27-01-12, 07:28 PM
Arabian Races have already been held, wasn't able to view it on any channel in NSW

mindari
27-01-12, 08:05 PM
Here are the fields for the Arabian races tonight:

H.H Sheikh Zayed Bin Sultan Al Nahayan Cup - 2040m 5.55pm

1. Franshar Park K Shar - Loretta Beckman
2. Warrawee Naaziq - Kim Noble
3. Blakes Heaven Bombora - Catherine Burri
4. Quinta Essentia - Aine O'Connor
5. Paro Prediction - Deanne Pinney
6. Sinaya - Brent McGregor
7. Jupiter Samira - Daniel Noll

My tip: #3 Blakes Heaven Bombora


H.H. Sheikha Fatma Bint Mubarak Ladies IFAHR Cup - 1600M 6.20pm

1. Ridgecrest Shy Guy - Jadey Pietrrasiewicz
2. Wantley Kaliph - Barbara Guenet
3. Ringarah Malik - Berit Weber
4. Cedar Ridge Fire 'N' Gold - Shathra Al Hajjaj
5. Aqaba Brown Dirt Cowboy - Victoria Allers
6. Chardonnay Park Rasheeka - Phillipa Tutty
7. Al Chimia - Azhar Al Wardi


My tip: #5 Aqaba Brown Dirt Cowboy

ho hope Blakes Heaven Bombora wins

Anubis
27-01-12, 08:19 PM
What a horse!
It was a canter over

Norbit
27-01-12, 08:20 PM
...go Black Caviar!:) I just watched the race and one of our boys was racing against her...didn't place but still kinda cool.:p

MMC
27-01-12, 09:04 PM
Wasn't she amazing? It was like, "hang on, I win" And she came around them all. :)

What an amazing horse. :)

MMC
27-01-12, 09:06 PM
She will have to go over-seas now because no horse here can even come close.

MMC
27-01-12, 09:07 PM
Njuro, how did the Arabs go? Sky racing didn't show them.

Samsdonks
27-01-12, 09:13 PM
She's done it again. Yes 17 in a row. What a bloody good horse. Peter moody also has to be congratuated. For training a great mare. I'm upset though I missed the race. Yes I know I said I was going to be glued to tv. But love making interupted it and forgot to press rec on tv. Oops um not human love making, equine love making. Stallion & mare. Not in love today.
Should've just left them. As I missed the race. All I can hope is foxtel / austar replay it tomorrow,

gdh
27-01-12, 09:17 PM
Orr Stakes next at 1400m, the 1st time she's been over it, which I think is why she took the sit early, to get her to settle for the extra distance.
I really see no sense in going to England. The prizemoney's pathetic & unlike a stallion, increasing her worth as a broodmare is neither here nor there. I'd just hate to see her hurt or lose form due to flying or quarantine problems :(. Leave her here for us all to marvel at :D

Jenny Barnes 1
27-01-12, 10:04 PM
Plenty of races with plenty of cash right here. Manikato went to 1400m and she's going to caulfield for it (probably the easiest 1400m of all the tracks in Melb and probably Sydney too) both times. But there are two races in Adelaide she'd walk in and are nicely placed pripor to going to teh UK (which they seem to want to go to for the prestige like Miss Andretti did). And the cargo planes seem to go via Adelaide anyway (can remember reports of takeover Target coming to Adelaide but no further than the tarmac of Adelaide airport on his way OS) - be easier than Sydney or Bris where she still wins but doesnt look anywhere near as fluent around the bend til they get into the home straight.

There was also talk of staying in England for the July Cup - thats a race that all but one of our sprinters have failed in and the one that won had won the Caul Guineas over 1600m the spring before (more suited to the sprinter milers than the sprinters). Also think they'd beat her in Dubai due to how they run races there. Rather see her come back here after Ascot but perhaps that wipes out the spring not sure on the quarantine timings plus a break.

And nice to see the comments from Peter Moody re her 'putting racing on the front pages for the right reasons something that doesnt happen as often as it should' or words to that effect.

acaciaalba
28-01-12, 01:37 AM
well, she cruised in, as we thought she would.
as to the debate about where she should race next.
well, she has to go up against something better than she did tonight. she has to race better horses and prove herself.
look at the horses Sunline raced against,,and beat. just check out her record,,the horses she beat,,and the distances she won over . she was a champion,,,no arguments.
not putting Nellie down,,,no way !
but she has to race good horses,,,and at present,,she isnt . she is running against ordinary horses. if she goes overseas at least she will be up against the better horses,,,and then she can prove how good she is.
it wont be better money,,,,but she will get the chance to prove just how good she is.
Hay List is a good horse,,,,but he will never beat her,,,unless she falls over or something.
he is good,,,but not as good as her. he is the only one here in Ozz that will give her a run for her money.
so she has to go elswhere now .
and lets cheer on Sushi Sushi tomorrow night,,,,at Ballarat i THINK,,, a standard bred going for its 17th straight win,,,as Nellie did tonight.

opensky
28-01-12, 07:44 AM
I really love that burst she summons that cruises her past the others and the fact that she didn't get whipped, just one tap on the shoulder to find the next gear. The champions always make it look easy! Rgds

Horsegears
28-01-12, 10:25 AM
she has to race better horses and prove herself.
but she has to race good horses,,,and at present,,she isnt . she is running against ordinary horses. if she goes overseas at least she will be up against the better horses,,,and then she can prove how good she is.

I don't think its necessarily about beating better horses, but perhaps beating different sets of horses.

ally2
28-01-12, 10:46 AM
my thoughts are that owners are lured by the 'glam' of Ascot - the royal enclosure, dressing up funny for the blokes (wonder what Joe Janiak does with his top hat & tails these days:)) frocking up for the ladies (no fascinators please!) rubbing shoulders with you know who..& why not! if Nellie is up to the travelling - she hasn't done a lot of it - it won't increase her value as a broodie as it would with a stallion - Aussie sprinters have proved themselves there already...& as someone has already said it's not for the money - although the Dubai purses are rather nice if she goes there - one of those races is on grass at least the other on all weather - be interesting to see how she goes when she steps up to 1400m next start? she didn't seem put out by the number 1 barrier last night - doesn't seem much that she doesn't take in her stride ...fingers crossed that she stays injury free....Hay List won his barrier trial at Randwick yesterday but as acacia says she would break his heart again if they met in the TJ stakes

Horsegears
28-01-12, 10:53 AM
my thoughts are that owners are lured by the 'glam' of Ascot

Nar, its about beating the uppities and their royal horses on their own turf.

ally2
28-01-12, 11:41 AM
like regaining the ashes over there?? - not too many 'royal' horses in the mix these days - most of the gooduns are owned by the arabs ..or Irish :)

acaciaalba
28-01-12, 04:58 PM
well, i say she has to go race at ascot,,because i am going just to watch her !
and i would love to see her cruise in as she did last night ! beat the arabs and the coolmore mobs ,,,it would be so exciting if she can do it !
Joe probably rented his top hat and tails, which is what most aussies who go over , do.
we had 3 in our party who had invites to the royal enclosure, and the dramas and running a round to get their gear, and when they finally got back with it all in boxes for the hats and suit bags for the clothes, one bloke had no pants, because the shop had forgotten to put them in, and another bloke,s pants were about 3 sizes too small,,,,this after they went and were fitted ! finally the rental place sent them with a delivery bloke and they arrived about half an hour before we were due to leave for the races !
we reckon they just did it to give the aussies a hard time of it !
was funny tho, watching all the too and fro-ing !

ally2
28-01-12, 05:16 PM
LOL! acacia - not Moss Bros surely?
will be great if Hay List & Sepoy are there for you as well - plus a couple of others I can't recall

acaciaalba
28-01-12, 10:47 PM
think it was Moss Bros. it was a place,,,,very upmarket,,,in the docklands,,,,in one of the new super shopping precincts there. they had super up market places,,,and the shops,,,,,OMG !!,, what a place !! sort of like QVB in Sydney,,,only classier . beautiful shops and areas,,, so so modern,,,which i found quite funny because some of it was on the Isle Of Dogs !!!
cracked me up !!
apparently the Isle Of Dogs was where Henry 8th had his hunting kennels with all his hounds.

acaciaalba
28-01-12, 10:51 PM
forgot to say.
Sushi Sushi ran at Ballarat tonight, going for a 17th straight win, against the old warrior, Smoken Up.
Sushi Sushi ran second,,,,Smoken Up third,,,,beaten by a horse that paid $102 for the win !
thats racing and could happen to Nellie any time !
hope it doesnt tho !

gdh
04-02-12, 12:21 PM
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this & I had no time y/day to check soooooo, the mighty mare runs today at Caulfield. Unfortunately it's too late to let you all know (locals anyway) that entry is free :). Brilliant idea I reckon & hope some families who wouldn't otherwise be going, have an unexpectedly brilliant day at the races. :)

Jenny Barnes 1
04-02-12, 12:26 PM
Its next week gdh - 11th Feb at Caulfield.

The only news today is they for some reason are considering Dubai for start 20 - hopefully not and she goes to Sydney (TJ) then Adelaide (sangster) then Ascot.

gdh
04-02-12, 01:11 PM
Ooooops :(. No wonder it hadn't rated a mention!!! Oh well, plenty of warning now, for those who'd like to go next week!
Missed the Arab race so hope TVN show it again & that there's video footage somewhere on the net :). Any early reports?

gdh
11-02-12, 04:19 PM
How easy was that? :D. Moody said she'll probably race next Sat. otherwise he'd have to work her harder than she did in todays' race :eek:. Never out of 2nd gear & eased down further with 100m to go. Made top quality horses look 2nd rate!
Can see it here:http://bigpondvideo.com/Horse_Racing_Archive
Caulfield Race 6
Youtube will have it later probably as Black Caviar 18th win :)

Horsegears
11-02-12, 04:56 PM
Well I will go out on a bit of a limb that is based on the success of Manikato's over 2000m (beaten by a good one), and suggest that BC would win a Cox Plate if set for it. Therefore I think its good she's going overseas for challenges that remain within her natural distance range.

Jenny Barnes 1
11-02-12, 05:24 PM
Wouldnt really judge her ability over 1400m on that race today - most of us could have nearly run faster than they went til the home turn.

Rather her stay here and go through teh autumn and then Ascot then back but sounds like they want to run three weeks in a row then a break to Dubai then a break to Ascot and then to the July Cup up that milers hill (the only Aust horse to win the July Cup was the prev years Caul Guineas (1600m) winner). And that probably means with he travel quarantine and timings no real spring campaign compared with the last two springs.

Horsegears
11-02-12, 05:33 PM
Wouldnt really judge her ability over 1400m on that race today - most of us could have nearly run faster than they went til the home turn.

I would think the absolute ease of her win over-shadowed any possible detractions from this race in regard to opposition, distance, pace, excuses for beaten runners etc.



.

Jenny Barnes 1
11-02-12, 06:49 PM
I was talking more of ability to run the 1400m right out. Why push her out over a distance and risk the horse pushing itself too far when there are plenty of races over the sprint distances to win. With manikato they onlytried him over the 2000m as a young horse and even over 1600m as he got older he was far less effective with that single win being a hard fought by a nose win.

http://www.barnesphotography.com.au/manikato/race.htm

Horsegears
11-02-12, 07:37 PM
I was talking more of ability to run the 1400m right out. Why push her out over a distance and risk the horse pushing itself too far when there are plenty of races over the sprint distances to win. With manikato they onlytried him over the 2000m as a young horse and even over 1600m as he got older he was far less effective with that single win being a hard fought by a nose win.

http://www.barnesphotography.com.au/manikato/race.htm

She could run 1400m right out despite a faster pace, for reasons below. Note Manikato's trainer felt his best distance was 1400m, although I bet by his muscle type 1100 or 1200m should of been ideal.

BC has a higher cruising speed over moderate distance than anything around, so this means she's racing well under her max speed even in sprint races. This of course means she will always be racing within herself over moderate distances which allows her to obtain further distance (Further than her natural sprinting muscle type would normally allow). Keep in mind that Manikato certainly appeared as more of a stronger/speedier type than BC, which again indicates that whatever Manikato could do distance wise - BC could at least match him *while young, confident and fresh. On both counts this is effectively based on *class, rather than a natural ability to run the distance. (In simple terms due to their exceptional class/speed most races over middle/moderate distances will be run at a slow pace in comparison to their cruising speed).

Another example of class beating distance was the brilliant (by type) Kingston Town when bolting home in the Sydney Cup by lengths as a 3yo.

I of course agree that it is preferred that she does not race over too far a distance, as was the point of my earlier post.

Believe me, if they were not going overseas the Cox Plate would be very tempting for its trainer and owners by the time its came around.

After all, they seriously considered taking her to Ascot (WA) which was a noted graveyard for Eastern state horses during it heyday.

gdh
11-02-12, 08:35 PM
Pete, not known for outlandish statements, said this morning on radio that he felt the mare could win at any distance she was trained for, when questioned re. a Cox Plate attempt. Judge for yourself whether she's an International class 1400m horse & bear in mind she's only 2nd up in this race.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qle5T2qXZZc&feature

A lovely pic of her enjoying a relaxing splash:
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/black-caviar-can-run-a-mile-says-peter-moody/story-fn67tkww-1226268101929

acaciaalba
11-02-12, 10:46 PM
well, she cruised all the way. a caulfield cup winner couldnt get near her, and its a good horse too !
Luke never sat down !! never touched her with the whip. and she just went away from them !
and did you watch her after the race, when Clair Bird was interviewing Luke , on horseback ? her ears were pricked. she was so wrapped up in herself. she wasnt puffing. or sweating. she was trotting along, full of herself, almost saying, look at me kids !!
bring on ascot ! as in ROYAL ascot !

horsesRgr8
11-02-12, 11:00 PM
well, she cruised all the way. a caulfield cup winner couldnt get near her, and its a good horse too !
Luke never sat down !! never touched her with the whip. and she just went away from them !
and did you watch her after the race, when Clair Bird was interviewing Luke , on horseback ? her ears were pricked. she was so wrapped up in herself. she wasnt puffing. or sweating. she was trotting along, full of herself, almost saying, look at me kids !!
bring on ascot ! as in ROYAL ascot !

Again......just a 'walk in the park'......she really hasn't had to push herself has she.... she wasn't blowing at all. amazing final furlong footage showing all the others were under the whips and she was still under a firm hold....just striding ahead....freakish!

acaciaalba
11-02-12, 11:14 PM
yeah. think we just have to aknowledge she is a freak, and get on with it.
she does it so easy !! its awesome watching her.

gdh
12-02-12, 12:52 PM
I think I'm one of very few who'll be sad to see her head overseas as soooooo many things can go wrong. I've no doubt, at the top of her game, she can more than test any horse running against her, so my fears are based on her not producing to her full capacity, due to mental (homesick for surrounds/friends), sickness (travel?) & well documented soundness issues, non of which at their lowest level are detectable until under race pressure but will definitely see her beaten against Group 1 International horses.
I'd love her to race here & finish her career as unbeaten but that's just me :D

horsesRgr8
12-02-12, 01:29 PM
I'd love her to race here & finish her career as unbeaten but that's just me :D

Me too Gdh....

acaciaalba
12-02-12, 03:40 PM
yes, in all honesty, so would i.
but her owners are dead keen for ascot, so if she has to go, i want to be there.
i wish she was staying home tho, and i hope she gets Zenyatta,s record before she goes O/S.
traveling them so far is such a massive undertaking. so much can go wrong.

mindari
12-02-12, 04:26 PM
She could run 1400m right out despite a faster pace, for reasons below. Note Manikato's trainer felt his best distance was 1400m, although I bet by his muscle type 1100 or 1200m should of been ideal.

BC has a higher cruising speed over moderate distance than anything around, so this means she's racing well under her max speed even in sprint races. This of course means she will always be racing within herself over moderate distances which allows her to obtain further distance (Further than her natural sprinting muscle type would normally allow). Keep in mind that Manikato certainly appeared as more of a stronger/speedier type than BC, which again indicates that whatever Manikato could do distance wise - BC could at least match him *while young, confident and fresh. On both counts this is effectively based on *class, rather than a natural ability to run the distance. (In simple terms due to their exceptional class/speed most races over middle/moderate distances will be run at a slow pace in comparison to their cruising speed).

Another example of class beating distance was the brilliant (by type) Kingston Town when bolting home in the Sydney Cup by lengths as a 3yo.

I of course agree that it is preferred that she does not race over too far a distance, as was the point of my earlier post.

Believe me, if they were not going overseas the Cox Plate would be very tempting for its trainer and owners by the time its came around.

After all, they seriously considered taking her to Ascot (WA) which was a noted graveyard for Eastern state horses during it heyday.

Wonder what her muscle biopsie would reveal?

I well remember Ruben Rose saying that Kingston Town had both "elite/good" (sprinting) AND "good" (staying) muscle counts when giving the results of the Ti's test, he said the only horse with the same percentage he found in Ti was Kingston Town. which gave the horse the ability to both stay over a distance then go into sprint mode at the finish.

n yep was soooo tempted to register ti as a racehorse and see what would eventuate. (in them days you could) but a good kick to the splint by heialeih (and broken) put paid to that idea.

Horsegears
12-02-12, 07:41 PM
I think I'm one of very few who'll be sad to see her head overseas as soooooo many things can go wrong.

If ever a horse deserves to be given the chance to prove itself as all time champ by winning over distance and internationally its her.

In another 20 years she may end up as being seen as another Vain, who's not even not considered as an all time great because he was apparently a one dimensional sprinter. Perhaps BC deserves the chance to better that, and why be greedy and keep her to ourselves?

She can also get hurt by stepping on a stone.

Just my opinion and realize most will not agree.

Horsegears
12-02-12, 07:49 PM
Wonder what her muscle biopsie would reveal?
.

I think she has a greater portion of slows than Manikato, but a smaller portion than Kingston Town as she has shown she can maintain on-pace speed over sprints right through a prep.

haveaniceday
12-02-12, 09:51 PM
Manikato isnt considered a 'one dimensional sprinter' nor is Vain for taht matter but they are known as two of the best sprinters seen. Little like Makybe Diva will be remembered as one of thebest ever stayers.

Vain only had about 14 starts and didn't race beyond halfway through his 3yo year. On this BC has it better as she has been racing for about 3 or more seasons now and this is her second season winning in the best sprint races.

Even Tulloch gets forgotten about in the 'greatest ever' discussions at times but he was one of the top 4 ever. BC is doing awesome things for racing at the moment and she could keep that going by just racing and winning but the owners want to go OS to Ascot (which does suit Aust sprinters).

As for proving anything what did Zenyatta do? we all known that she nearly won 20 in a row but all this distance and opposition stuff is never mentioned nor wiht Silent Witness and his 17 in a row. I think people who say 'she must do this and that' have not been fans of racing long enough to see a number of champs come and go.

Horsegears
12-02-12, 10:31 PM
Manikato isnt considered a 'one dimensional sprinter' nor is Vain for taht matter but they are known as two of the best sprinters seen.

That's exactly my point.

gdh
18-02-12, 12:09 PM
MMC, now we know how to edit titles, could you possibly fix hers up? :)

The great mare & Hay List race today at 4.10 Vic. time

Horsegears
18-02-12, 12:15 PM
Has plenty in hand and no doubt probably wins, but has to be a bit if a risk back to 1000m chasing down haylist.

ally2
18-02-12, 04:16 PM
she's broken Hay List's heart again in the Lightning..who says she doesn't beat good horses

sunday
18-02-12, 05:27 PM
I actually had my heart in my mouth for a moment, it looked like he was going to keep up with her! She even (gasp!) got a smack with the whip...haven't seen that before. She definitely had to work for that win. Hay list may have come second to her a lot of times but he still thinks he can beat her, he doesn't give up ever.

gdh
18-02-12, 06:54 PM
I personally rate that as her best effort........awesome & only a smidgeon off the track record set in about the 70s by Colin Hayes trained Special :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ahn30l9I4&feature=share

OakyPoke
18-02-12, 06:54 PM
Dont forget it was Hay Lists first race back after 10 months off and almost dying.

Hay List is closing the gap that's for sure!!

Black Caviar is a great mare but I do wonder if her weight for age claim wouldnt make a difference too.....would love to see the two run on a truly even handicap one day.

Both Champions.

I had a trifecta on BC, Haylist and Foxwedge......and jolly Buffering pipped Foxwedge by a whisker!!! I almost cried!

mindari
18-02-12, 06:57 PM
ho bugger.
what a dissapointment for you.

gee that was a super brave run for him then wasnt it.. haylist i mean

Horsegears
18-02-12, 07:09 PM
I personally rate that as her best effort........awesome & only a smidgeon off the track record set in about the 70s by Colin Hayes trained Special :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_ahn30l9I4&feature=share

My opinion only (Don't listen to press)

Truly brave run and certainly added another bow to her string, took out the speedy Haylist under his own conditions. However perhaps a large number of other very good horses have performed previously in a similar gutsy manner against the tide. For this reason not her best race (As stated by some press, Although I agree with gdh and perhaps her best *effort as stated). We are talking about a Champion here, not a gutsy octagonal 'press champion' type where the standard is quite a bit lower. Just my opinion and not a criticism or her, rather its actually a compliment.

ally2
18-02-12, 07:26 PM
she beat Hay List by 3 1/4 lengths in last years Lightning (first up run) this year by 1 3/4 lengths just a tick off the course record - Hay List was coming back from serious injury & she was coming back from 1400m - two great horses - pity she now seems unlikely to run her 20th in Oz - not sure which could be termed her best race - perhaps her previous joust with Hay List?

gdh
18-02-12, 07:30 PM
Dont forget it was Hay Lists first race back after 10 months off and almost dying.

Hay List is closing the gap that's for sure!!

Black Caviar is a great mare but I do wonder if her weight for age claim wouldnt make a difference too.....would love to see the two run on a truly even handicap one day.

Both Champions.

I had a trifecta on BC, Haylist and Foxwedge......and jolly Buffering pipped Foxwedge by a whisker!!! I almost cried!

Hay List has now had several opportunities to beat her, even in the opposite direction, in Sydney & Brisbane but always falls short & usually there's a good reason put forward.
However, returning from near death or not, connections were adamant pre race that this was the best they'd ever had him for a 1st up tilt. Yes, there may well be 4 lens improvement on him but his fragile feet make him a day to day proposition, let alone week to week.
Black Caviar on the other hand, was set the daunting & most unusual task of coming back 400 mts in the space of a week :eek:. I'm not sure if it's ever been done successfully in that class, HG or Jenny???? This is why she was flatfooted when asked to let down & why she had to go for broke for possibly the 1st time in Melb. Luke was very emotional when talking about her effort today, obviously feeling the reserves she was having to draw on. Certainly won't be running next week after that gutbuster.

Her 1/2 brother, trained by the Hawkes combo, had his 1st start today as a 2yo, in a Stakes race, winning convincingly, his name is ALL TOO HARD. Owned by Nathan Tinkler (Patinack) he was the top priced y/ling at Easter last year :)

Jenny Barnes 1
18-02-12, 07:31 PM
Octagonal was a champion but in the spring his mind as a 4yo seemed elsewhere but he came back that autumn (Saintly was better though I reckon if only he'd stayed sound). Outside Adelaide cup and Takeover target was the biggest crowd I've seen turn up in Adelaide and he was only there for an exhibiotn gallop Makybe Diva was one pumped by the press - she was a champon stayer but should never be mentioned alongside Carbine, Kingston Town, Tulloch and of course Phar Lap.

Hay List has had 5 tries and lost each time he isn't 'getting closer' he's the same as he was 12 months back but she is just better. He nearly had her in the TJ Smith in Sydney where he dashed clear as she wobbled around the turn before powering past him.

Any group 1 she isn't in is his for the taking if connections finally decide to do that instead of chasing her if she stays here and doesnt go to Dubai in the next few months.

She had things against her today - drawn in the centre in a sprint field so she had to jump well to hold her spot early, dropping back 400m in a week is a massive test for a racehorse - they are trained differently for 1400 compared to 1000 and on a racing forum no one could think of one in recent times that has done that at Group 1 level, backing up for the first time as well.

Still hope she stays here before going to Ascot as there are plenty of races for her to run in instead of one on a different surface under very different conditions to what she is used to here. Imagine if she won another 3 or 4 here before going to Ascot in June (and would go past the country level mark of I think its Miss Petty inthe process).

Horsegears
18-02-12, 07:38 PM
Dont forget it was Hay Lists first race back after 10 months off and almost dying.

Hay List is closing the gap that's for sure!!

Black Caviar is a great mare but I do wonder if her weight for age claim wouldnt make a difference too.....would love to see the two run on a truly even handicap one day.



BC played it safe and went with Haylist today, and she showed the same turn of foot as Haylist which is sometimes his go. I don't think he can close the gap as 2 lengths plus is quite a margin to catch up, especially when its a consistent margin. Plus if Haylist did somehow find a few lengths how much more does BC have in the tank? She just keeps getting stronger as the line gets closer

Going by past champs I think she's at her brilliant best right now, but perhaps champs can tend to turn further dour (Or more in line with the opposition) fairly quickly (She's rising six now, no longer a spring chicken) and that's when the pressure may be applied.

Horsegears
18-02-12, 07:41 PM
Octagonal was a champion but in the spring his mind as a 4yo seemed elsewhere but he came back that autumn (Saintly was better though I reckon if only he'd stayed sound). Outside Adelaide cup and Takeover target was the biggest crowd I've seen turn up in Adelaide and he was only there for an exhibiotn gallop Makybe Diva was one pumped by the press - she was a champon stayer but should never be mentioned alongside Carbine, Kingston Town, Tulloch and of course Phar Lap.

Hay List has had 5 tries and lost each time he isn't 'getting closer' he's the same as he was 12 months back but she is just better. He nearly had her in the TJ Smith in Sydney where he dashed clear as she wobbled around the turn before powering past him.

Any group 1 she isn't in is his for the taking if connections finally decide to do that instead of chasing her if she stays here and doesnt go to Dubai in the next few months.

She had things against her today - drawn in the centre in a sprint field so she had to jump well to hold her spot early, dropping back 400m in a week is a massive test for a racehorse - they are trained differently for 1400 compared to 1000 and on a racing forum no one could think of one in recent times that has done that at Group 1 level, backing up for the first time as well.



I think that's pretty accurate.

Horsegears
18-02-12, 07:45 PM
Hay List has now had several opportunities to beat her, even in the opposite direction, in Sydney & Brisbane but always falls short & usually there's a good reason put forward.

Agree, its easy to make excuses but nothing beats an actual win. The same horses do frequently beat the same horses regardless of excuses.

Nothing against Haylist, he's a champion, but he needs to be a freak!

acaciaalba
18-02-12, 08:12 PM
that was awesome i think. to do that, come back the 400 in a week and still take on H.L. and beat him.
i wish H.L,s connections wouldnt keep taking her on. in any other year he sweeps all before him, he is so gutsy. she is just a freak.
H.L. never pikes it,,never throws in the towel,,,,i really feel for that horse .

Horsegears
18-02-12, 08:27 PM
Lets try some subtraction and see what we are left with!

21 starts, 18 wins!

Multiple group 1 winner and still racing, and an Aussie to boot!

OakyPoke
18-02-12, 08:42 PM
I'd still love to see them race at same weight....and I still maintain that was an awesome effort first race back. AND he is closing the gap. Initially she beat him by four lengths I think it was? Then 3, 2 and a half and then today.....

Anyway time will tell all.

Horsegears
18-02-12, 08:47 PM
I'd still love to see them race at same weight....

Weights were designed to give the press something to talk about, and not much more.....

gdh
19-02-12, 01:57 PM
I'd still love to see them race at same weight....and I still maintain that was an awesome effort first race back. AND he is closing the gap. Initially she beat him by four lengths I think it was? Then 3, 2 and a half and then today.....

Anyway time will tell all.

Same weights would put her at a distinct disadvantage as the WFA scale was initiated to take into account that females are inferior in strength to males & this is adjusted throughout the year :)
Now, I'll see if I can fix the title with this 'new' idea of SEFs' :) Seems I need to 'Submit' 1st to get the Advanced Edit up :(

Horsegears
19-02-12, 02:03 PM
Same weights would put her at a distinct disadvantage as the WFA scale was initiated to take into account that females are inferior in strength to males & this is adjusted throughout the year :)
Now, I'll see if I can fix the title with this 'new' idea of SEFs' :) Seems I need to 'Submit' 1st to get the Advanced Edit up :(

Actually Black Caviar will have more weight if shes lines up in the Newmarket. But she has so much power the weight effect you would think is much lowered in comparison to other horses. Distance, injury, poor riding can stop here, but less so weight in the modern day of compressed weights.

gdh
19-02-12, 05:00 PM
Of course she'll have more weight in a handicap :rolleyes: but OP was talking about meeting Hay List at level weights, in which case, she'd theoretically be at a disadvantage - given her sex!

MMC
19-02-12, 09:11 PM
For what it's worth, after the other thread about editing titles, I have tried.

All I can edit is the opening post, not how it shows on the forum.

I am soooo sorry it says Balk Caviar, I didn't see it when I first posted it. :( :( :(

And my spell check didn't pick it up either. :(

gdh
20-02-12, 08:12 AM
At least you tried MMC :D, I don't think the spellcheck works for titles tho' :(

acaciaalba
20-02-12, 02:06 PM
have you seen the time they now say she ran ?

ally2
20-02-12, 04:54 PM
no acacia! did they revise her time? see that Moody is now saying that he may have been a little rash in saying she wouldn't run in the Futurity...& that she won't run at Ascot or Dubai if she can't have a barrier blanket or attendant at the barriers

Horsegears
20-02-12, 05:19 PM
no acacia! did they revise her time? see that Moody is now saying that he may have been a little rash in saying she wouldn't run in the Futurity...& that she won't run at Ascot or Dubai if she can't have a barrier blanket or attendant at the barriers

Those sectionals don't have a solid reputation (May not be related to the 3rd company involved) so I don't think the apparent new time is a foregone conclusion. Even if taken from the film and not the actual sectional timers. Good on Moody, lets not allow the poms to push around what their press have effectively referred to as Australian pigmy horses.

Horsegears
20-02-12, 06:56 PM
http://horsegears.com/images/bc1small.JPG
Lightning Stakes. Cameras everywhere.

acaciaalba
20-02-12, 07:34 PM
its confirmed she can have a barrier blanket in UK. Moody is going to Dubai to check things out before he decides,,,he will have 5 hours on the ground there i heard them say today.
the official time for sat,s race is now under review from racing victoria , from data provided by daily sectionals, which suggest she actually ran 55.44.
daily sectionals is a company that provides RV with an assessment of all vic race times. they believe BC ran 0.09sec faster than the official time.
apparently they have done some pretty rigorous cross checking frame by frame using digital age technology.
her quickest burst was between 600 and 400 mark, when she was running at 20m per second.
breakdown of her sectionals.
1000 to 800,,,13.54sec
800 to 600,,,10.21 sec
600 to 400,,,9.98 secs
400 to 200,,10.40 secs
200 to finish,,,11.40 secs.
pretty awesome anyway.

ally2
22-02-12, 09:23 AM
well Jenny may get her wish to see BC in Adelaide after all, today Moody has ruled out the Futurity & Dubai & sent Nellie to the paddock he says...
'...I haven't made up my mind yet, but she could either run in the Robert Sangster Stakes (1200m) at Morphettville on April 28 or the Goodwood over the same distance at the same track a fortnight later.
The other race in my thinking is the BTC Cup - the race she won last year - at Doomben, which is also on May 12....'
I'm pleased he's given Dubai a miss & just set her for Ascot - shows he & the owners have the horses welfare uppermost in their minds & not just the money IMHO

Horsegears
22-02-12, 09:42 AM
I'm pleased he's given Dubai a miss & just set her for Ascot - shows he & the owners have the horses welfare uppermost in their minds & not just the money IMHO

IMO effectively an enforced spell and they will be taking all that's possible in the future, as consistent with races entered this preparation. Rising 6yo. Blinkers off.

ally2
22-02-12, 10:00 AM
LOL! you may well be right HG - perhaps I was seduced by Moody's silver tongue (&cherry ripes) - I should know better than to have blinkers on when ANY trainer tries to appear sincere!
'.....There's nothing wrong with her. To the contrary, she's at the top of her game.

But it's all geared around having her at her peak when she flies across to England for the Diamond Jubilee Stakes.

That's the Royal Ascot race the owners have had their sights on for some time and everything is being tailored like a Saville Row suit to have her cherry ripe for that race on June 23.

I've got no doubt that Black Caviar could have gone to the Futurity on Saturday and just won as easily as she did in the Orr Stakes earlier in the month, but it would have been her fourth run in five weeks.....'


End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

I had to look at the bigger picture. What would I have had left? She's pulled up 110 per cent from her run in the Lightning Stakes and I wanted to keep it that way. If she heads to the paddock in that condition it's only going to enhance her prospects for her next campaign.

gdh
22-02-12, 11:34 AM
Commonsense (where's that gone these days?) approach, imo, as a fellow trainer & exactly what I'd do with her, as no athlete can stay in peak form for over 6mths which is effectively what she'd be asked to do otherwise :). A sprinter far more so, as they need to retain that speed edge :) Onya Pete!!

Horsegears
22-02-12, 11:56 AM
Commonsense (where's that gone these days?) approach, imo, as a fellow trainer & exactly what I'd do with her, as no athlete can stay in peak form for over 6mths which is effectively what she'd be asked to do otherwise :). A sprinter far more so, as they need to retain that speed edge :) Onya Pete!!

Well it appears that's the task that was originally set for it. Of course sprinters can benefit from being freshened along the way, and perhaps a touch of dourness may be apt for the UK courses.

gdh
22-02-12, 01:32 PM
Horsegears quote:"I'm not sure if its quite fair to label Moody's initial 6 month prep effectively as unrealistic etc."

Well I'm damned sure happy to see you've retracted that statement when I didn't even imply as much :).
Prep. after prep. Pete has stated one race at a time, dependent wholly on her well being & to my mind, he's not deviated one iota :).

acaciaalba
22-02-12, 01:49 PM
i reckon Moody has done the most brilliant job with her. he has nursed her along and looked after her. the owners want Royal Ascot,,and thats what he has worked towards.
i just wonder where BC would be today, in some other trainer,s care,,for instance Gai, or even worse, her father !
she would be broken down in a back paddock with 5 or 6 runs to her name is where she would be !
we all say she is a freak, and so she is. but flippin' 'eck she wouldnt be the freak we have seen without the care Moody has given her !! yes good horses make their own luck, but they cant do the impossible, no matter how good they are, without proper care and training and thought on the trainer,s part.
look at some of the outright silly things O'Brien has done with So You Think ! stuff Bart would never have done.
Moody has stuck to his guns. one race at a time. in spite of all the arm chair critics who even complain when he changes his mind on her plans, he has just done the right thing by her and stuff the rest of them and what they say .
good on him .
and best of all i am going to be there when she wins at Ascot !!!

mindari
22-02-12, 01:56 PM
You lucky thing. wish i could be with you... but certaily will be wishing her all the best..

as for TJ... into the susage factory..out of the sausage factory.. if they cant take the heat. they get burnt even perhaps worse..

my brother used to get so upset at times he would be almost crying to some of the horses.

bart is his total hero.

Horsegears
22-02-12, 02:02 PM
I think to be fair no one has set out to criticize the trainer about the way he has handled the mare. A few have said they would prefer her not to go overseas and perhaps queried to run back over 1000m, and nothing wrong with opinions. He has a hard job keeping everyone happy but I don't think he's complaining!

Horsegears
22-02-12, 02:12 PM
And by the way, probably the worlds second best sprinter (IMO) now also has its sights set on Ascot so she may not get it all her own way.

acaciaalba
22-02-12, 02:15 PM
i didnt really mean here on CH , Horsegears. just stuff you read , and hear on radio and TV,,and other forums. wasnt directed at CHers . sorry.
if you mean Hay List. they have a different race picked out for him. and Frankel is to race over more distance and they say a race between him and her is virtually a non event.
so who do you mean ??

Horsegears
22-02-12, 02:23 PM
Probably the trainer's talking about the Kings Stand below, but if he wins that the trainer sounds open to the challenge, and the next race would fit nicely of course.

"It would be great if Australia could win a few races instead of just 1 or 2. In saying that, it would be awesome to see the 2 of them rumble again up the big Royal Ascot straight. Some horses improve lengths when they travel & others go backwards, so it would present a totally new playing field for both of them. We've got nothing to lose on that stage."

acaciaalba
22-02-12, 03:17 PM
which trainer said that ??
the way i hear it,,,could be wrong tho,,,BC will go for the diamond jubilee on the Sat and Hay List for one on the Tuesday.
anyway,,,i just hope they both travel well and run well, and if they win,,how good would that be !!!

Horsegears
22-02-12, 03:24 PM
Quotes on this link from both trainer and owner. Quotes above from owner.

http://www.breedingracing.com/news/2012/02/22/hay-list-team-plan-international-campaign/

Don't think they mention the actual races.

acaciaalba
22-02-12, 06:31 PM
Hay List going to Singapore for the Kris Sprint ??

gdh
22-02-12, 07:22 PM
I heard Moody interviewed on RSN this a.m. & he said the only possible time they could meet is at Glorious Goodwood in the big mile race (??) which he said is the softest over there & that he understood Frankel would not be running in it , preferring instead................forgotten :mad:

acaciaalba
22-02-12, 07:33 PM
think there is a race at the ascot carnival they are aiming Frankel at.
let me consult my contact at newmarket. shame she dont do email.
will write off my missive and see what she comes back with .

Jenny Barnes 1
22-02-12, 10:53 PM
Frankel is being aimed at a 1600m race at Ascot - his distance is 1600m apparently. She is going for the Golden Jubilee which was known under a different name prior but its the one on Saturday night.

Kings Stand is on the Tuesday night also a sprint.

Would be good to see her come to Adelaide - two perfectly good Gr 1 sprints that she would win easly