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Thread: Anthropomorphism and herd animals.

  1. #11
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    First read the AR rights blurb......."" Life Changing Videos ....This is how dairy farms treat a mother who collapsed due to many pregnancies and forced milking. Notice how her friends won't leave her""







    the only relationship to the truth is this HEIFER is a dairy breed. by her bones size she is probably about 15 months old.....

    She is in a pen with same age heifers being raised obviously in feed lot conditions. SHE HAS NEVER HAD A CALF, SHE HAS NEVER BEEN MILKED.

    WHAT IS TRUE is she has cast herself and needed to be moved.

    did they spend the time massaging her legs to get the blood-flow back after being cast too long to be able to get back up herself, is the only unanswered question here. I hope they did and she toddled back to her friends? we will never know that one though.

    They can do exactly the same out in the paddock, helped many a cow and heifer who got themselves cast in any number of situations and they all walked off fine! A lady had one of these lifters and she found it a wonderful way to get them back up on their feet and steady them while she regained control of their hind legs. best invention ever, works on horses too.




    Wake up and dont believe propaganda without question.


    https://www.facebook.com/garytvcom/v...7746969044921/


    lies like that video do nothing to improve the quality of life for thoseheifers. What should be happening is the factory farms not be allowed toraise them in such conditions, the driver of that tractor should befacing cruelty charges for hiking her so high in the air for no reason afterthe initial lift to get her over the fence she was on the wrong side of, she had escaped the pen and was in the sluge collection pit/drain, did you notice that?







    this video shows how they should be used.


    blob:https://www.youtube.com/89d0ae0a-71a...7-cd3d41210748


    .
    Last edited by mindari; 11-11-18 at 06:06 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by opensky View Post
    Apex predator with no qualms or empathy for other species, nor ourselves often.
    It seems like you are not a very nice person. How do you show this behaviour?

    My mother is a registered nurse who works in aged care and plays a lot of golf. She is also 79 years of age. We are always concerned that she might get harmed by someone or something that she is being nice too. Of course as she is a member of this horrible species you can't be talking about her.

    Or any of my brothers or male cousins because they are clearly apex predators - probably knuckle dragging ones.

    For myself, I know there are individual humans who chose to be rotten to the core, other humans who can't control the reasons they are bad and others who allow harm to occur due to disinterest. But I think that there are also many wonderful and exciting human beings out there doing great things for humanity and trying to do good things for the other species that share this world with us. They might not be able to save us and the world but they would like to.

    I'll leave the rest of you to thinking humanity sucks but I think you are all stuck in a pretty sad sort of rut.
    "One must avoid using force, for I have never seen anything positive come out of a horse if such is the case".

    Antoine De Pluvinel

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bats_79 View Post
    It seems like you are not a very nice person. How do you show this behaviour?

    My mother is a registered nurse who works in aged care and plays a lot of golf. She is also 79 years of age. We are always concerned that she might get harmed by someone or something that she is being nice too. Of course as she is a member of this horrible species you can't be talking about her.

    Or any of my brothers or male cousins because they are clearly apex predators - probably knuckle dragging ones.

    For myself, I know there are individual humans who chose to be rotten to the core, other humans who can't control the reasons they are bad and others who allow harm to occur due to disinterest. But I think that there are also many wonderful and exciting human beings out there doing great things for humanity and trying to do good things for the other species that share this world with us. They might not be able to save us and the world but they would like to.

    I'll leave the rest of you to thinking humanity sucks but I think you are all stuck in a pretty sad sort of rut.
    I think your right, 90 to 99% are great people.

    why some like to tar everyone with the same brush as the minority who all fear, beats me.


    always has, probably always will.

    I and some have met evil, yes it breaks lots in your mind but just because I know from first hand how cruel a tiny few can be.

    I have never lost faith in trusting all the wonderful people there are well worth our faith and love.


    the pain such a few can inflict can feel totally overpowering but they are nothing compared to the 90 to 99 percent of awesome people...


    so many give up fearing all are bad, it is not so, never was, never will be even if the pain has blinded many to the truth


    I learnt long ago as a child, you cannot tell by looking at anyone who you can trust, some of the most evil have a talent for deception, you can only ever find out who you can trust, by trusting enough to give them the opportunity, trust and turn your back.
    if there suddenly is a knife in it, the question is answered.

    then tick that one off the trust list.

    to mistrust all is to lose hope, to lose the magic of life essentially..


    that is too precious to lose for trust and love is life

    our animals know that, why is the human race the hardest slowest, one to learn that???????
    Last edited by mindari; 11-11-18 at 10:35 PM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgh05 View Post
    Apex predator with no qualms or empathy for other species, nor ourselves often

    Indeed..nice people us..

    otoh.. we are also apex survivors ; although the odds suggest we are riding for a fall...

    ….won't be water but fire next time….
    Honestly, all you need to do is read the books in the rocks, creation,, annihilation.........creation, annihilation ......creation, annihilation ......creation, annihilation ......creation, annihilation

    quite a few billion years of it.

    for a member of what is supposed to be an intelligent species the lessons dont seem to the learned yet?

    the arrogance of assuming only homo sapiens is capable of its annihilation or prevention when we are obviously just part of the ever continuing cycles isn't conductive to confidence in the learning or deductive capability of the species is it?

    from past records the only thing we can be pretty sure of is there will probably still the cockroaches and ants a million years from now

    doesn't look like being smart is the prerequisite for survival of a species
    Last edited by mindari; 11-11-18 at 10:45 PM.

  5. #15
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    Brilliant article..


    not what the AR mob want you to see though


    http://www.raisingthestandards.com.a...pWFKSJzGYBV-MY

    click on the link if you want to see the photos.


    I speak as someone whose entire life is consumed by equine welfare – this is my only concern. I am not a racing professional in any capacity. I’m embarrassed to admit that I can’t even tack up a harness racehorse, nor have I ever even been in contact with a Thoroughbred racehorse beyond a pat in the stalls before or after a race, or a ride on a longtime retiree. However I work shoulder-to-shoulder with racing industry professionals and do so proudly. These are good people; just like the riders and general horsepeople I have also met along this journey.

    I pen this article spurred on by the concerns voiced by thousands of people who have been blogging, commenting on social media and voicing their opinions about the racing industry. What I have read has pointed to an apparent lack of accurate information being disseminated about the way the racing industry works, the level of care being provided to racehorses and the personalities and integrity of the individuals who choose to work within the racing sector.

    I have run a small commentary on equine welfare in racing via my personal social media pages across the past few months. People’s reactions, mostly positive, to my opinions have created an honest and collaborative dialogue on this topic. However regardless of the perspectives people have, I will say what is concerning to me is the private messages I’ve received. Some people have told me that they think what I am saying is great and that they admire me advocating for the racing industry, even though “we all know how it really is”; as though I’m only telling half-truths or concealing the facts. These comments have really irked me, as someone who writes passionately and without agenda.

    So here it is: my insight…
    THE TRUTH ABOUT THE RACING INDUSTRY FROM A FLY-ON-THE-WALL.

    Within the racing sector I have visited some of the largest and most prestigious racing stables in Victoria, as well as going out to tiny little properties with just one or two racehorses in the backyard. So I feel I have a sound overview of all facets of the industry on the whole.

    Some of the larger stables I have visited house anywhere up to 90 racehorses at any one time. From foals, right though to 30 year old horses who have been gifted a ‘forever’ place in a grassy back paddock and everything in between.

    Walking into the bigger stables used to intimidate me. Everything runs like clockwork; not a piece of straw out of place, horses lined up in uniform rows awaiting pedicures from the farrier and a flurry of grooms, property managers, trainers and equine health care workers all ensuring that every little detail is tended to. There are rumps so shiny you can see your face reflected in them, horse walkers and hydrobaths for physiotherapy and whiteboards littered with horse names and incredibly detailed plans about where each horse is stabled, meal plans, checklists to ensure 2-3 feeds are ticked off each day, any medications listed and upcoming health care appointment dates noted; every tiny aspect of each horse’s life is monitored and every need is met.

    As I am handed the lead rope of the next horse on my list to commence a career change from racetrack to riding hack, I receive a comprehensive overview of what to expect when handling this new horse. “Don’t be worried if he backs up and runs his bum into you in the paddock; he’s not trying to kick you, he’ll just be wanting you to scratch under his tail – he loves that!” Or “this guy was named Stormy as he was born on a stormy December night back in 2004. He was three weeks overdue and his mother went through 6 hours of labour. I sat with her the whole time.”

    The sheer amount of detail and unique bond trainers forge with each horse really is indescribable. This is not just a job – it goes so far beyond the call of duty. Even the burly blokes with tough exteriors and a matter-of-factness about them turn to putty when talking about their horses. And it doesn’t seem to matter how many horses are in work or being handled each day, every single one has a story.

    On the flipside, I have personally visited properties where hobby trainers juggle one or two racehorses and ‘normal’ working life. I have witnessed people living in desolation, whilst their horses want for nothing. Tiny little derelict weatherboard houses and baked beans for the humans, new $250 rugs and $40-per-bag hard feed for the rotund horses greeting us at the gate with ‘smiling’ ears. The people go without so that their horses do not.

    I have had trainers leave my property with empty horse trucks and tears flowing steadily down their cheeks, knowing that their racehorse deserves a life of purpose that they cannot provide once the horse is retired from racing. The mental health of the animal, being one which is accustomed to routine, daily exercise and lots of human interaction, is something most racing professionals will acknowledge as a fundamental component of the animal’s wellbeing. Standing wasted and unappreciated in a back paddock somewhere is a life half-lived. So they bring these horses to my life after racing re-training centre to give their beloved equine a chance to secure a future full of joy, love and purpose. I’ve had trainers drive as far as 900km round-trips to provide this.

    I am sure, as many who read this will argue, that there are trainers who don’t care to this high level. Yes, this may be true… but it’s also not unique to racing – there are many general horse people who treat the average paddock pony with apathy too.

    I can only speak of what I have witnessed firsthand and what I have seen has only inspired and strengthened my connection to the racehorse. I see how good a life these horses have during their racing careers and can only hope that my work as the ‘middleman’ will ensure that these horses go on and continue to live equally purposeful and appreciated existences beyond the track.

    Be assured that if I saw abuse, neglect or things that questioned my morality in dealing with racing professionals, I would have walked away years ago. I have other formal qualifications and options, but I choose this lifestyle and to engage with the racing industry.



  6. #16
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    Through my work as a riding coach and equestrian horse trainer I have been invited onto many riding properties to visit non-racehorses of varied breeds and vocations. From this, I will say that the level of worry I have for the horses in racing industry is far less than the concern I have for some horses living in private entities. I wonít be going further into discussion about this, but itís safe to say I have been appalled on many occasions.

    I would like people concerned with the welfare of race horses to stop for a minute and think about the equestrian industry as a Ďwholeí entity inclusive of racing, riding, breeding and general horsemanship.

    In just 5 minutes I could find literally 100 photographs of abused and neglected non-racehorses to accompany this article. Horses whose owners donít have the knowledge or funds to provide them with the care they require, horses who are not checked for days and days and then found dead in the middle of a paddock somewhere by the weekend rider Ė these things happen every single day, but never make front page news.

    Any animal welfare issue outrages me as much as the next person. I have 30 horses in my direct care and spend every single waking hour trying to better the lives of my animals and support others who share my passion. But I feel we need to take a minute to breathe here, re-gather our thoughts and not be swept away in hysteria.

    Footage of a horse being euthaniased on the racetrack would have the same devastating impact as the image of a horse being tarped and put to sleep on a show jumping course. However equestrianism on the whole is not being attacked; only one small sector is being vilified. The reason why this is occurring is what concerns me the most. To read anti-racing activists celebrating on Facebook when a horse dies as ďa reason to give these racing bastards more hellĒ really makes me question motives. Is this even about the horses anymore?

    People say that the racing industry exploits horses for money and greed. Letís not be ignorant here: horse breeding operations, stables that produce trained performance horses for sale and riding schools are also profiting off horses in the same fashion. Surely not all equestrian professionals who derive an income from a passion for horses are evil?

    During a time when many Australian jobs are being outsourced and families are battling unemployment woes, the racing industry produces tens of thousands of jobs. Being the third highest employer in Victoria, racing provides jobs to those working both directly with horses (the trainer, groom, vet, farrier, stewards and so forth) and those indirectly (the kid working in the local saddlery, the farmer growing oat crops, the guy at the sports bar pulling beers on Cup Eve and the milliner who creates head art for the Carnival). Racing also injects hundreds of millions on dollars into our economy each year.

    From experience dealing with racing educational institutions, job agencies and from visiting stables, I can also tell you that the racing industry provides an equal opportunity for people with mental health and other disabilities to secure employment. It also provides jobs to people who did not complete school and to people of non-Australian backgrounds. Itís an industry with no ego that is welcoming of all.

    I have read articles citing Ďfacts and statisticsí about how many racehorses are killed each year and I can tell you these figures just donít match up with the reality of what I have seen with my own two eyes. I donít need to weigh into this side of the debate as there is official data being collected, as part of long-term study, which will provide irrefutable clarity on this matter. Stay tuned!

    Life after racing exists too. There are hundreds of individuals working within countless organisations across Australia dedicated to creating meaningful avenues for retired turf, harness and greyhound racers. We often are just so busy up to our eyeballs in manure, vet bills and the daily grind of caring for so many lovely animals that we donít have a chance to become overly vocal about what we are doing. Those of us on the actual frontline making a difference donít have the money nor the time to invest in activities outside of animal husbandry. This does not mean we donít exist Ė it just means we are directing precious resources into horse care instead of promotion.

    I would also like to say that, as the operator of the largest in-house managed life after racing program in the country (as most programs are administrated from an office and horses are place into various re-training stables Ė we house all our program horses here at one property), I have never, ever been approached by any animal activism group, for any reason (not to obtain accurate data, nor to extend an offer of help or even just to open a dialogue). I find this to be strange, as most of us in the life after racing sector share the same end-goal and so are very proactive about maintaining strong professional relationships.

    Anyway, I just wanted to take some time away from the paddocks to provide some insight into what happens behind the scenes in racing, not from the Ďbiasedí perspective of a racing professional, but rather from the eyes of someone who shares in a collective desire to see every horse treated with the utmost dignity and respect.

    Duty calls: dirty troughs and hungry retired harness racehorses are demanding my attention (there will be holes kicked into my gates if Iím running off schedule), but I thank you for taking the time to read this article.

  7. #17
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    Bats I think you've gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but perhaps so did I....if we were all lacking empathy it would be a worthless world.

    I was referring to how we as a species treat other species (and I did say 'how we treat ourselves often') and here are just a few of the instances of treatment of other species that I struggle to come to terms with:

    Live sheep export - cruelty for money

    Bulgarian dog-spinning - cruelty for fun (don't google it if you are squeamish)

    An elephant skinned alive for blood diamonds (few weeks ago in the news) - horrific

    Korean dog slow strangulation, they get to point of death, release it, then go again, repeatedly, apparently the meat tastes better....

    Sun bears kept in pits in China, bears kept in tiny cages for their bile....horrific

    Shark killing spree considered as one killed someone...brainless. It's their environment!

    Battery hens (ever been in a chicken shed full of battery hens?) it's horrific.

    Calves ripped off their mothers at birth, fed only milk and kept in dark pens with no contact (in Europe, at least here they get 6 months or so of life) to make veal .....

    And look at the horrific deaths sea creatures suffer as they unwittingly get caught in or eat our plastic garbage. The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is testament to our careless way of life.

    I better stop. Plenty more examples, but I think this conveys enough of a picture.

    These things are unconscionable and a sad indictment of us as a species.

    If acting about these things makes me 'not a very nice person' so be it, in your opinion perhaps, but it doesn't alter the facts that this era has seen more disregard of the planet and other species than any other.
    Last edited by opensky; 12-11-18 at 09:08 PM.
    Without a horse you're half complete.

  8. #18
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    “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it;
    have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air,
    and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocentrism

  9. #19
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    and yet in spite of our well documented penchant for brutality and destruction , we also create quite transcendal art that moves us to great emotion and mutual love.

    The historical imagery of the gnarly male with dried blood under his fingernails , surrounded by his family and friends as a musician brings him to tears is evidence of this human dichotomy.

    Religion suffers this dichotomous fate , all at once responsible for franchising mass killing and torture while forming the vehicle for some of history's most moving music and art.
    The only thing wrong with a horse is that it is usually attached to a human

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by opensky View Post
    Bats I think you've gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but perhaps so did I....if we were all lacking empathy it would be a worthless world.

    I was referring to how we as a species treat other species (and I did say 'how we treat ourselves often') and here are just a few of the instances of treatment of other species that I struggle to come to terms with:

    Live sheep export - cruelty for money

    Bulgarian dog-spinning - cruelty for fun (don't google it if you are squeamish)

    An elephant skinned alive for blood diamonds (few weeks ago in the news) - horrific

    Korean dog slow strangulation, they get to point of death, release it, then go again, repeatedly, apparently the meat tastes better....

    Sun bears kept in pits in China, bears kept in tiny cages for their bile....horrific

    Shark killing spree considered as one killed someone...brainless. It's their environment!

    Battery hens (ever been in a chicken shed full of battery hens?) it's horrific.

    Calves ripped off their mothers at birth, fed only milk and kept in dark pens with no contact (in Europe, at least here they get 6 months or so of life) to make veal .....

    And look at the horrific deaths sea creatures suffer as they unwittingly get caught in or eat our plastic garbage. The Great Pacific Garbage Patch is testament to our careless way of life.

    I better stop. Plenty more examples, but I think this conveys enough of a picture.

    These things are unconscionable and a sad indictment of us as a species.

    If acting about these things makes me 'not a very nice person' so be it, in your opinion perhaps, but it doesn't alter the facts that this era has seen more disregard of the planet and other species than any other.
    I think most of your examples are things most people are against. You can't generalise that this is how humans treat other species. I won't go into every one of your examples, with most it is pretty obvious. As far as agricultural examples are concerned, a lot has improved over the years out of concern for animal welfare, even if it costs us money.

    The live export industry has done an enormous amount to improve animal welfare and control the risks. However, I think most people are now at a point where it is clear that some risks can't be controlled and I am sure that it will be phased out soon.

    Dairy calves are taken from their mothers straight after birth because they have bonded a lot less than when you leave them together longer, so it is actually in their best interest. Of course it would be better if they could stay together until natural weaning, which would mean that you would be at least $5/L for your milk.

    Most people buy free range eggs, because they do not like battery cages. Now free range hens have plenty of other problems, so I am not sure the welfare of laying hens has improved all that much, but people do care. They may lack knowledge of production systems and may find affordable eggs, milk and meat important, but I don't think most people are intentionally cruel to animals. Certainly if you look at our attitudes towards animal welfare over the years, we humans are more and more concerned and prepared to do something about it.

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